SPEAKER_03 0:00

So many unique places, but it's like the individual access, the one that's known as Everest. So everybody says Everest.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

And so I I think for most people, including myself, when I think of climbing the Himalayans, I'm thinking weeks off work and sometimes months off work, especially if you're looking at Everest, Everest. Can you tell me, is there places you can go that are shorter? Like you just said seven days just then. Can you recommend to people shorter hikes? Is that something that you can do?

SPEAKER_03 0:32

I can recommend, I recommend a lot of certed hikes. There are very much short hikes that are actually very beautiful that you can do. The thing is, what are you looking for? That's the main thing. Because if you are looking for the breathtaking view up in Kalapata, Abrest will be the only option. You know, I cannot, there is no other viewpoint as you like that. But if you have seven, eight days, you can go to Langtang, uh, Langtang Valley to King V, which has a very beautiful view. Not similar, a different kind of view. Yeah. Yeah, okay. A little bit less. And then if you in four days, five days, we can also do the Busikunda Lake Trek, which is also not offbeat, still in the main area, but men would not recognize.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Welcome to the Truly Expat Travel Podcast. I'm your host, Paula, and this is season two. On season one, I talk to expats about their favorite holiday destination. On season two, I'll be doing things very differently. I'll be chatting to expats about where they currently live, why they chose that destination, all those secret hidden gems that only locals know, you know, like favorite restaurants, best neighborhoods, things that tourists don't. Welcome to the Truly Expat Travel Podcast. I'm your host, Paula, and today I've got a really, really, really interesting guest because we aren't talking about the norm. We are talking about somewhere that you may be thinking of that you want to try, but you're not sure. So let's dive in. Welcome, Joe, and where are you from? Where are we talking about? And yeah, look, what is your destination and what's your story?

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Hi there, Namaste. My name is Sri Jansen today. My friends call me Joe. I'm the CEO of the Abrest Holiday. I'm just a mountain guide from Nepal. We operate all over Nepal, India, a little bit over Tibet, and also we operate in Vutan, but most of our major focus is the Himalayas. I'm here to today on the request of Polar to talk about the Himalayas of Nepal. Specifically, something outside the Abrest, because everybody keeps talking about Abrest. We are here to talk about different mountain routes, different expeditions, different tracks, and also how I got involved in tourism. I am a third-generational tourism entrepreneur. My faded fa family has been in this industry for a long time. But why I work in tourism and why my tourism work is focused on social charity and why we believe that by traveling we are making a difference.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Definitely. And it really piqued my interest when we discussed. We, you know, we connected on online first, and it really piqued my interest to talk about other than Everest. If you want to hear an Everest episode, you can go back way back in season one where I talked to my husband. But he's also, because he's a climber, he's really interested in the Himalayas itself. And he doesn't necessarily want to just do Everest, he wants to do other places. So when you said that you do other places, I'm like, okay, you're my man. I want to know where we can go. For someone that doesn't climb months, like or weeks and weeks, if they want to do something short, you know, what can we do? Where can we go? You know, let's get started.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

There are many routes that I can recommend. The first thing that comes in is do you want to climb or do you just want to track? Yeah. That's the differentiate first comes. The second differentiate we ask is people you want to go a normal touristic area or you want to go a little bit off the beat. Yeah. I usually recommend off the beat. The reason is the tourist areas that if you go is always crowded. There's always people there. And when you think of the mountain, it's usually for me, is somewhere with no cell reception, somewhere with little villas by the side, but I could see the greeneries, some waterfalls, and just the mountain looking in front of me that's guiding my way. So I can recommend many. The main thing that comes to me, I would recommend Dolpa, Upper Upper Mustang also used to be good, but now it's more becoming more of a tour destination with the new vehicles being created, a road being created there, and then there's Narfu is good. One thing that has always been in my heart will be Rovi Valley. This is a very unique place for me because it has not too much of a mountain, but you see a Buddhist culture, Tamang heritage, and literally in five minutes walk, you see a Catholic village established by missionaries 30, 40 years ago. So it shows you this is a place where missionaries went to. Yeah, where there was nothing. And it's so beautiful. Maybe it's because it's also my project site. I love it. And to see a Christian villa is up in 5,000, 3,000, 4,000 meters near Tibbab border. You know, the first time I saw it, it baffled my mind too. Then there's a Lantang to the trail, depending on some of the location. There's some beautiful trails there. I love the Makabarun trail also. Makabaron has some unique place. Kanchanjana is amazing, it's a major trail, but very few people visit it. It's just coming in a cleanhouse bit, it's also amazing. Rara, the Rara trip is amazing. You can get up to Dolpa from Raba through Jumla trip, that's also amazing. That whole of the GST, the great Himalayan trail, are part of it. If you forget Averes, Anapuna, Manasuru, which are the major things that are happening. If you forget the routes, whole of the Himalayas open diary for you. You know, there are so many different routes that you can take, and there are so many. There is more than 6,000 peaks that are uh close to 6,000 meters with the earth, and they have not been classified. Most of them haven't been even climbed.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

Wow. So there is so many different opportunities. The thing is, everybody looks at the pal and they say, Everest, everest. Yeah, I shouldn't say that. My company itself means that the thing is, and it is the world. I go uh traveling around the world. At first, I say in the poor, and then I say that I am a trekking fragment, and then I'm like, Have a clam, Everest. You know, it's that's the world thing people know. Sometimes I think it's a weird thing, but you see a lot of things. You know, Everest is just a point of beginning. Yes, Everest is beautiful, the view of the three good lakes, the Gokio lakes, and the three passes. There are so many amazing things in Everest. Always, you know, Everest is always gonna be in the top. But Everest is not one of the things that defines Nepal. Yeah, there are so many different things it's like there's a mountain right in the background of where my family is from called Ganeshima. Yeah, it's a mountain that has never been climbed because it's thought to be holy.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

And we have done simple expeditions there where we have done camping for seven days in the upper region. The only thing we have seen is BFs, no other humans. Uh so there's a part where I was doing app in Himalay in the 2011 GST, where for six days we saw no village.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Wow. How serene. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

So many unique places, but it's like the easy to access, the one that's known as Everest. So everybody says, Everest.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

And so I I think for most people, including myself, when I think of climbing the Himalayans, I'm thinking weeks off work and sometimes months off work, especially if you're looking at Everest, I think Everest. Can you tell me, is there places you could go that are shorter? Like you just said seven days just then. Can you recommend to people shorter hikes? Is that something that you can do?

SPEAKER_03 8:23

I can recommend I recommend a lot of certain hikes. There are very much short hikes that are actually very beautiful that you can do. The thing is, what are you looking for? That's the main thing. Because if you are looking for the breathtaking view up in uh Kalapata, Abrist will be the only option. You know, I cannot, there is no other viewpoint that's gonna be like that. But if you have seven, eight days, you can go to Lang Tang, uh, Langtang Valley to Kings in Ray, which has a very beautiful view, not similar, a different kind of view. Yeah, okay. And then if you in four days, five days, you can also do the Gosai Kunda Lake track, which is also not offbeat, still in the main area, but then would not recognize, which is also a very beautiful track. You literally walk down from a peak and reach a top of a hill that becomes a mountain by a lake by the side.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

Oh wow, nice.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

And then there is the Ruby Valley as a that that I said that you can do it from eight to nine to ten days, which is more of a local track where you go through Taman villages that became from Buddhist, Hindu to Christian, and you can see how it's transformed. Right now, in rainy season, you can see hundreds of waterfalls in that area.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Hundreds of because that was my qu gonna be a question. I was wondering what season is the best time to do any of them. Is it seasonal? Like, can you do something like you're saying in in the rainy season?

SPEAKER_03 9:50

Rainy season, climbing in rainy season is possible. Just like uh you can do Mera Peak, Island Peak. We actually have a Mera Peak that's having happened pretty soon. We had a couple of island peaks that happening a couple of days ago. Because after you cross a 3,000 to 4,000 meters barrier, yeah, usually what happens is a snowfall. Do you understand the word?

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

So that will not affect the mountain climbing season that much.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

Trekking-wise, except Ruri Valley, you cannot Rui Valley and maybe Uppermostan and Upper Dolpa because these are in the rainfall shadow area. Maybe a bit of most of the other reasons I would not recommend for trekking.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

Tibet is only the option you could do on this time. Actually, going to Tibet in 10 to 12 days myself.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

Going with a group for Lake Manosogoba and Kailas. The thing is rainy season made in the summer is quite good. Uh then there is also after August, September, October, November. Yeah, up to even up to December is okay.

unknown 10:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

January gets a little bit cold, then again, March, April, May, June, up to June. You know, because even when the rainy season starts, then it's uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

And dangerous? Would it be dangerous?

SPEAKER_03 11:33

The climbing part, not so much. It's getting their part. Do you understand? Robes are not so safe. It's like right now, uh, nymphs die from nymphs expedition, the late expedition. Yeah. He I just was told that he got lost in Broad Peak Pakistan when he was doing because there was a freezer avalanche.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

So maybe that could have been also caused by a lot of snow accumulating on the top, yeah, and causing that. I do not know the cons why it happened actually right now, because many things happen in Pleiad. But rainy season, unless you are doing maybe small peaks and some rain shadow in the area like Upper Mustang, Upper Tolpa, I wouldn't recommend. Because it's the getting there part that gets a little bit scary. And it doesn't matter how much of a technical expert you are, you can't stop an abers, you can't stop a landslide. So these are things that we just safer.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Now you've just mentioned upper Mustang. I know that that means a lot. You care about this m this this trek a lot. So explain to us who have never heard about it where, what is Upper Mustang and why is it so important to you?

SPEAKER_03 12:48

I am a practitioning Kagyu Buddhist. I come from a Hindu family, but during my Indies, Buddhism pulled me in, and I was lucky to meet his self-honoraban Tataran Yunpache, and he guided me in my life. So I consider myself a Kagyu Buddhist. And for me, going to Apan Mustang is going through a pilgrimage. The fourth monastery of Tibetan Buddhism is Ghalgumba, which is more than 1300 to 1400 years old gibbatic. And there are caves over there that for thousands of years different yogis and masters have meditated. The energy feels real to me, and it feels to me that I am walking my path when I walk there. And for normal people, it is the last part of Free Tibet that is still free.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

It was not conquered by the Chinese during the Tibet takeover. And then afterwards, what had happened was this place turned out to be one of the most uniquely preserved areas of Nepal and Tibetan culture. Why? Because till the 1990s it was still restricted. Even right now, it's still a restricted area. So you have to pay till the till a couple of months ago, you had to pay $500 to enter there. And one person couldn't enter. Two people. So you have to pay thousand dollars just for the permit. Yeah. Wow. And now it they have lowered it down to $50 a day.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Still a lot, but not that.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

It's still a lot for a short country. But there are some unique key monasteries, there is some unique cultures. Everything, every day your mind is gonna be blown because you are literally walking behind the mountain rings. When you are walking, you you are walking in a cold desert and you look behind, the Imalays are behind you.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

A very surreal experience, you know. I can go hours and hours, I can explain you each one of the monasteries, what it signifies, I can explain you about born Buddhism, I can explain you about TZ festival. But this is a place that you know when that Jew takes his billionaire people once a year and a plane all over the world?

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

They come to Nepal just to take the billionaires here.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Wow. Okay. So someone who is interested in going there, how how long should they how long will it take? Or what is the estimated time here?

SPEAKER_03 15:25

Actually, we are doing actually is give a ticket ten days now. We have created the packages because of the so-called permit rule that changed. And right now, as I told you, most of Upper Mostang reason has been, what do you call it, road kind of a road, because they have bent the road, yeah? Within the next 10 years, I think this might be the last time that you might see Upper Mostang for the world.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

That's so sad. But that's progress, I guess. And what is the what is the kind of level of fitness that you need to have to be able to do something like that?

SPEAKER_03 16:06

But that's all you need. Most people do not understand it. They always keep on telling me that I need to be this fit, this look, I'm a big guy. Yeah, as you can see. I'm 100 kilo plus. I wouldn't like it. And I I have been able to climb mountains, I have been able to trek. It's not about how big you are. The physical fitness is your standard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

Can you do the war? And the second main thing is you need to climatize. You need to follow the rules properly. If you rush too hard too fast, then that's where the issues happen. I had a friend, uh I'm not gonna give his name, but he's a long trail runner from the US, very strong. Very super strong, you know. This guy did Anapana Circuit in three days. Oh my god. The whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Yes. He went from he did uh part of GSE that I thought would take six months in less than 60 days.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Yep. And he was always very fast, but his first time he was in Nepal. My dad asked, should he give him the plummet? I was like, no, this guy is a long-term runner, we can. And he was doing Kanchen Janga with one of my most expert guides, Lama Dai. He was working with my family for now close to 40 years.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

He's a former monk who is still practicing Lama. So he is also our guy. And he did he reach Kanchan Janga Base Camp in three and a half days after two days of driving to get just to the beginning point. But he walked so fast that he has half a knees in his chest. He had liquid filter filling chest. Then the guy had to carry him back up to a station where the helicopter could land. Then we had to bring him. He's spectrum very close to two weeks in hospital. Don't worry, they turned with he was back in the trail again.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

So so for those.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

So that's why I call slow and steady wins the race.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So for those who are not trekkers or hikers, is there, I believe there is, uh a wildlife experience that you can offer people?

SPEAKER_03 18:17

Actually, there are a couple of wildlife experiences. If you want to see the normal jingle safari, we do not sell elephant safari. This is against our ethics. I'm gonna be telling that before at hand. We do not sell it. But if you want to do downable jungle safari, I would say there's always the chiton jungle safari, two days, two nights, three days that we usually recommend. We also have a photography tool that has been set up for jungle safari select. But if you do want to do actual jungle safari and you have a bit of a time, I say we go bad here. You you want to see the Bengal tiger on their actual spot, then we go Balhia. And not only jungle safari, there are also many other activities like paragliding, banji jumping, the famous there's rafting that happens in Nepal. Nepal is not only Ebrest. Nepal is the only country in the world which has certain world heritage site just inside its capital alone.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

It's thousands of years of history, and there is so many things for here to see, but I do understand, you know, people always talk about Ebrest, but Buddha was born in this country. The first living Buddha was born in this country. Uh, there's the birthplace of Buddha, there's thousands of Hindu Buddhist temples, thousands of other structures, and many other things that you can do. Yeah. And I have a lot of groups that come to Nepal just to travel around, you know, just to see. There's the religious pilgrims groups that come in, then there's also the golden triangle as we call it. The golden triangle is Kathmandu, Pokura, Chiton, Lumini. These are the four areas. There's actually not a triangle, but you can go through all of this in 10 to 15 days, and you see most of Nepal. And now you don't need to even trek to see the mountains. Literally, you don't. You can literally drive up to Upper Mustang. Upper Mustang, you don't need to trek anymore.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Okay. Because I think that's where people get scared, right? They think of Nepal as a place that they have to trek or they have to to So so what you're saying is you can bring families. You can bring, you know, it's not just, you know, people that want to go hiding.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

I have a two-year-old daughter. She would love, and I hope she will follow in my footstep too, just like I followed in my dad's footstep. Look, there is so many places, so many things you can do, and we can never define Nepal only by the mountain. Yes, the tutor of the Himalays is in Nepal, but Nepal is a very unique country. So this is the tourist map of Nepal. Okay, this was uh by Nepal tourism boat itself. Yeah, yeah. So it is them defining it. And I'll not look at the muscle power. So now if you look at the whole greater map, yeah, that you see is natural. So Nepal is like a brick. It's 150 to 200 kilometers wide and 500 kilometers long. And there are so many things, you know, so many experiences that you can have over here. You know, there is even a hunting reserve in Nepal. Did you ever know that?

SPEAKER_02 21:22

No, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

I don't got involved, but I have been asked many times to organize it. So Nepal has it's like uh 50 shade of dee. That most people just seen the front cover of the book. The front cover of the book is Ebrest, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Yeah, but look, the birthplace of Buddha, yeah, that's Punhill, then there's Janal Safari, and there is so many at the very below that's upper Mustang. Those are the right classes. So there are so many things in 147,000 square kilometers, except the sea, you can find everything.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Yeah, everything.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

Wow, there's so many different opportunities, and most people are just looking at the small tiny, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Little, yeah. Well, I mean Everest isn't tiny, but it's one of yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is such a small part of what actually Nepal has to offer, right? And so I heard that recently. They had changed the solo tracking rules. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_03 22:31

Okay, so before in restricted areas, it's like Apanda Sang, I told you you had to go two people, you had to pay close to a thousand dollars. Now you don't have to pay that. Now you can go as a single person, even in restricted area. You still need to take a guide, you still need to pay the insurance, you need to pay the pen. But now you don't need to be two people. Nepal has allowed solo people to go in restricted area, which was not allowed before.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

And Nepal has also actually this needs to be fully implemented. But Nepal has said that people will need to take guides because there have been cases in the mountains where people have gone and this by regular routes. And then because they do not follow certain etiquettes, there are issues that occur. Yeah. I'm not saying every mountain guide is perfect, but it's better to have somebody that can actually guide you and call for emergency rescue in case something happens.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

Totally agree. Even if you are a professional uh high core trekker and done many, many years, it's always safer to go with someone that knows the land.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

It's always safer. No, certain times I do understand I like to go out alone myself. And there are certain tracks that I cannot uh with ethics that you should be doing it with a guy. Do you understand that?

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Yeah, I understand.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

But it's what is happening is uh Nepal has become a kind of a sales patch area where the same thing you can do for three, four different prices. Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

This is something that my dad taught me that the mountains, the Himalays are not only for the rich people, it's for basically everybody. So if you look at the way that I've designed my website, I've divided packages into three categories. Okay budget, standard, luxury. The budget category comes in where we provide the permit, uh, the basic whole transportation, uh, accommodation, and a guide. Yeah, which is the basic thing you need when you want to do any trade. Then the standard one has a portal added in, better meals, better hotel. Then when you get to luxury, luxury uh for abrest, which is a major reason. We have one day set you go by helicopter. You don't take the flight to the second most dangerous airport in the world. And then we give them better hotels, we give them a single portal per person, and the rest of Nepal, they get a better vehicle, you know, if better accommodation, everything is better. So you can do the same thing in three different choices. You can do Ebris within a thousand to thirteen hundred bucks to fifteen hundred bucks. What you are doing in buzzet, when you do it in standard, it might cost twenty five hundred bucks. If you do it luxury, it will be five thousand dollars in a book.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

So same thing can be done in different categories, and that gives people a chance. Anybody, you know, you could be a student that has a couple of hundred dollars, wants to come to Nepal and see the Himalay. So there will be a basement that we can actually do that on if they want to do it. If not, there'll be something else. So giving everybody a chance to see the mountain.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

I like that. That's lovely. And so do you give any advice or some tips that you would give someone that is interested in coming to Nepal?

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Start walking. Start walking their stairs up and down because your knees are gonna bother you and not.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:55

You don't need uh to go to the gym, you don't need crazy expedition training. All you need is a straight tool walk. If you want to do a track. If you want to do tools, you don't even know that. Yeah. All you need is the wallet to pay for the bus energy.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

So do you recommend hiking sticks for just even just like simple hikes?

SPEAKER_03 26:19

Actually, I recommend them. It's very useful for the knees because going more than that, I think going uphill is the downhill when there's too much pressure in knees. Me myself, I do not personally use it. I'm really sorry. Maybe it's me being my stupid knee. You know, I run in the mountains in my slippers certain times when the guests go with me and they see me in my shorts and 5,000 meters, and they're like, how do you feel in the cold? I'm like, I was born.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

That's definitely not me.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

No, it's just uh I think it's genetically how we are. My family comes from below Ganesimal. My grandfather father, they were born in 3,000, 4,000 meters. I was born in Kathmandu, I wouldn't lie, I was born in 1400 meters. Yeah, but maybe it's the genetic that has been passed down to me, you know. So cold actually doesn't bother me. It's the heat that bothers me. Every time I have to go to the lowland, for example, safari, I love the safari, but as soon as the safari is over, either in the pool or I'm directly in the pool and I'm like, how the hell can people live in this heat?

SPEAKER_02 27:30

I'm the completely opposite. So if anyone wanted to get in touch with you, how would they do that? What's the best way?

SPEAKER_03 27:37

They can look at uh my website, uh blue.diad rest holiday, t-h diablest holiday, or they can contact me through social media. My name is Shriz and Sinthara, S S R E J N S I N K D A. Or they can contact me through my WhatsApp plus 977-9810351300. And I'm always here 247. If you have any questions, feel free to ring me up. Usually I respond fast as possible. But if I'm not responding, realize that I either I'm up in the mountain, I don't have network, or probably I'm stuck in a jam. Usually I'll reply back to you as soon as possible.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Excellent. And for those who want to get in touch with you, I will put all the links on my show notes to make it easy for you easy for them to find you. So thank you so much for coming on today. It's been such a pleasure. And you never know, I might be one of those people that come and do a shorter hike. You may have convinced me.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

Well, thank you for providing me this great opportunity. A mountain man being able to speak his mind is a rarity. Thank you so much for this. And if you're ever coming to Nepal, just let me know. I'll be picking up you at the airport. We'll custom design a perfect hike nearly for you. Something that your husband will never like because he wants to go. Okay, we can send him. Yeah, exactly. We can relax. You know, we get those nice little EVs, drive up, have some jingle safari time, maybe do a small track, a bit of candy, relaxing, you know, maybe go to the spa. I know very nice.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

Okay, you've sold me. Okay, you sold me. I'll see you there. Thanks, Joe, so much for coming on. And for those who have tuned in, thanks again for listening to Truly Expat Travel Podcast. And until next week, safe travels. Bye. Safe travels, guys. Ciao. Bye. Thank you for joining me on the Truly Expat Travel Podcast. If you liked this episode and you found it valuable, then why don't you go ahead and like and subscribe so that you don't miss an episode moving forward? I've got some amazing guests and some fantastic destinations coming up. But if this is the episode and this is the destination that you really want to go to, then I suggest you head over to truly expatravel.com where you'll find travel guides and deep dive into this sort of destination. If that's not what you want and you can't find an episode that is a destination you want to travel to, then head over and follow me on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok, because I'm pretty sure you'll find something there. In the meantime, save travels and I'll see you next week.