SPEAKER_05 0:00

Tend to agree with you.

Introduction

SPEAKER_05 0:01

I think as we get older we are a little more cautious. Yeah. Um I I and I'm not I guess I'm not gonna put myself at risk. I think there's two things there that you've both said, and one is that we don't have children hanging off us anymore, so we don't have to be in a rush to get anywhere and entertain them and we can do what we want with. Mr.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

Cultural stuff because they don't want to see it.

SPEAKER_05 0:24

Yeah, exactly. Now we can kind of go, okay, well, I actually really want to see those museums and those churches, whatever it is that they didn't like. And also, I'm with you, Joe. Those long flights in economy, oh my god, I honestly, I wake up with a bad back and a sorry, and I look like I've gone and done like 10 rounds with Mike Tyson by the time I get off the plane. I look awful.

SPEAKER_06 0:48

I feel like I'd rather go away once every two or three years and do a property like every year in economy. I I'm at that stage of my life, and and my husband's a bit the same, and you know, I mean, I think I mean budget is a huge thing in travel. I mean, you talk about fast travel and slow travel and young people and old people. Like when we were younger, we had no money, but that didn't stop us. We got the cheapest flight, we stayed

Topic Introduction: Slow vs. Quick Travel

SPEAKER_06 1:12

in the cheapest hostels, we took all the risks, you know, and we My thing is we've done that, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:17

We've we've done our many, many years of economy travel, 20 hours right in the old days to Europe. Yeah, you know, just about non-stop. We did that.

SPEAKER_05 1:25

Welcome

Discussion on Slow Travel for Empty Nesters

SPEAKER_05 1:26

to the Truly Expat Travel Podcast. I'm your host, Paula, and this is season two. On season one, I talk to expats about their favorite holiday destination. On season two, I'll be doing things very differently. I'll be chatting to expats about where they currently live, why they chose that destination, uh, all those uh secret hidden gems that only locals know. You know, like favorite restaurants, best neighborhoods, uh things that do is that don't. Welcome back to the Truly Expat Travel Podcast. Um my name's Paula, I'm your host, and today I have two of my friends, but you will have recognized their voices if you're listening or their faces if you're watching, because both of them have been on previous episodes. Deborah spoke about brought at Christmas time, and Joe spoke about Morocco, who I I

Debra's Travel Experience

SPEAKER_05 2:22

tell you what, I have to my hat's out to her because because of her, I just went to Morocco and I've got a girls' trip planned. So yeah, I'm excited to chat to these two women. They both were expats in Singapore when I was there. I can say that now because I've officially left Singapore. And today we're doing something a little bit different. We aren't talking about destination. What we're doing is we're going to talk to you. It's a panel about a recent topic. Let's kind of get started and let's get stuck into it. Firstly, I'm going to so as you're both empty nesters. So we're all at a different stage. We're all at the same stage, I should say, of our lives. Our children have moved out. So I guess our travel style's a little bit different for those who are in their 20s, 30s, 40s, or whatever. And so let's talk about slow travel for empty nesters. The big industry stories right now are slow travel and travel while you can. Both, but both assume everyone has the same freedom. So how differently

Jo's Travel Experience

SPEAKER_05 3:22

are you actually traveling right now? And what advice would you give each other life stage gap? So who would like to go first?

SPEAKER_03 3:33

Deborah? I'm in a situation because of my children got stuck here during COVID, so I'm only just now able to set them up properly as adults back home. So a lot of my travel has been back there to sort a lot of stuff out for them. I've only just started the last 12 months getting back into my style of travel, which is doing what I want to do or travelling with my husband. But I have been travelling more solo than I used to do, which is awesome. I do love that, because that's something you couldn't do at a previous life stage. And to me, that's that's what I call slow travel, because I get to go where I want to go, see what I want to see, and I have no real time constraints to come back in a hurry. Not that I stay for a long time anyway.

SPEAKER_06 4:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What about you, Joe? I think the a way we're going to travel in the future is probably going to be a bit different. Firstly, because we're in Australia, so it's a lot further away to go to places, especially at the moment with the business class travel, the way how expensive it is. And to be honest, at the age I'm at, with my knees, etc., I don't love doing economy travel anymore. Like I will do it if I have to, but you know, and I have done it a lot in my life. Yeah. But I'm not that keen to do it now as a 60 plus kind of woman. And so I think a lot of our travel is actually going to be more local now, which we have always said that we would do as we got older. Like, so we've done very little in Australia. And my husband's from Scotland, so we're really, really quite excited actually to see a lot more in Australia. But in saying that when he retires in a couple of years, I would say we probably still will go away once a year, you know, to Europe or somewhere. But we actually had a big conversation the other day about what sort of travel we want to do, my husband and I and how things are changing. Okay. Um, and actually the thing that we had in common,

Travel Safety and Preferences

SPEAKER_06 5:19

which I don't know if it's with other people, but sort of the most important thing that we want to do is be safe when we travel. And I think when you're younger, you're way more prepared to take risks. You're way more prepared to not be that bothered if you feel unsafe, like as in like you, you know, if you're gonna get mugged or something like that. But I actually, my husband and I are just not interested in that now. So, like our last trip to France, we didn't go to Marseille or Paris or any of those places. We stuck to small country towns, villages where we felt completely safe, really enjoyed it. And yeah, so my probably love of going to big scary cities. I think I did that when I was younger, and I feel like that's kind of I've been there and done that. You know, I want to go somewhere in Asia or somewhere where I feel safe.

SPEAKER_05 6:04

Yeah. I tend to agree with you. I think as we get older, we are a little more cautious. Yeah. Um, I I um and I'm not I guess I'm not gonna put myself at risk. I think there's two things there that you've both said. And one is that we don't have children hanging off us anymore, so we don't have to be in a rush to get anywhere and entertain them and we can do what we want with. Mr.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Cultural stuff because they don't want to see it.

SPEAKER_05 6:28

Yeah, exactly. Now we can kind of go, okay, well, I actually really want to see those museums and those churches and whatever it is that they didn't like. And also, I'm with you, Joe. Those long flights in economy. Oh my god, I honestly I wake up with a bad back and a sore knee, and I look like I've gone and done like 10 rounds with Mike Tyson by the time I get off the plane. I look awful.

SPEAKER_06 6:52

I feel like I'd rather go away once every two or three years and do like every year in economy. I I'm at that stage of my life, and and my husband's a bit the same. And you know, I mean, I think I mean budget is a huge thing in travel. I mean, you talk about fast travel and slow travel and young people and old people. Like when we were younger, we had no money, but that didn't stop us. We got the cheapest flight, we stayed in the cheapest hostels, we took all the risks, you know, and we my thing is we've done that, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:21

We've we've done our many, many years of economy travel, 20 hours right in the old days to Europe. Yeah, you know, just about non-stop. We did that. Now that we can have more disposable income, why can't we travel more comfortably? Yeah, without the deal.

SPEAKER_06 7:36

And I do it every now and again. I think that's preferable to me than going away like every three months or something. Like, and particularly when my husband retires, I think we'll probably just do one like big sort of one or two month trip. You know, go over somewhere and just stay somewhere for a month or two. I think that's what we're thinking of doing, which is very different to what we did in the past when you only had four weeks' holiday a year. So you were trying to squeeze in like quick holidays over long weekends and stuff like that. Like I'm very happy now just to go to a little bed and breakfast with an open fire and a glass of wine and my dog by my feet, you know, for those week. I don't need to be on a sun lounge just somewhere like that's just all in a in a a church somewhere or something like that. I just don't need to do that at the moment in my you know where I'm at. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:20

I do think like I I I guess I'm a little bit different just because this is my life. This is what I do. And I still have those days where I still really love to go out and do a thousand things, but still just in one place. Do you know what I mean? Like uh I'm I'm okay to go not so much bungee jumping, but I'm okay to go off and do something really wild and crazy, but I need three days to recover. Yeah, I can't just get on a plane the next morning and and jump on the note. You know, and I can't go to bed at midnight anymore and get up at five o'clock to go and catch an early morning flight. It's just uh it's not in my makeup and I I'm grumpy and I'm awful. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 8:59

Yeah. I think I think that's the thing. Like as you get older, the slow travel is you do want to just go to one place. Like I remember a couple of years ago, actually before COVID, we had two weeks with my kids in Europe, and I actually said, like obviously young adults, and I said to them, Well, we've got two options, I'll plan it. I said, We can we've got two weeks, so we can either go to say two countries, you know, and just do them really well, or we can do a whistle stop tour and just see everything. And they both immediately came back with we want whistletop, we want to see everything. So it was like a one, two-night, like get up, go up at seven, like see three things in a day. Like it was that, but we still say it was one of the best tricks, but I wouldn't choose to do that now. I would choose to just go to one city, spend four or five days there. That's the way I want to travel now, which is very different, I think, to how both I was when I was younger and my kids are. Like they want to see everything and like get up and spend 12, 15 hours walking around and you know, then move on to the next place.

SPEAKER_05 9:58

Yeah, because I I do also think that we've seen a lot already. So we really want to deep dive into a destination rather than ticking off. I've done 55 countries this, you know. Now it's more like okay, yeah, sure, I've been a Barcelona five times, but I want to see it again because I haven't seen this part, I haven't seen that part.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

You know, it's just Well with Joe, I get the big city thing. Most of us have been to the big cities. I'm not fussed on returning again and again and again to Paris. Paris might be amazing, doesn't mean I want to go back again. And I probably will, but I would like to stay somewhere out of the city. I'd like to see some more. I love like I love places like the the countryside in France and the countryside in Germany because they're just some amazing old towns in the middle of nowhere.

SPEAKER_06 10:41

Constantly worried that you know someone's gonna pickpocket you or try and scam you on a taxi car. You know, all that. Exactly. Just all the all the stress that comes, you know, which is exciting when you're in your 20s and 30s, you know, that's part of travel, you know. But when you're sort of slowing down a bit, you just don't want to have to think, Am I being ripped off today? How many ways? Like I think a bit negative, but I mean we just had the most beautiful trip in country France and would go back again tomorrow and never felt unsafe. Whereas, you know, the last couple of times we've been to New York or Rome or Paris or somewhere, like I I don't know. I've just felt like every time I'm in a in a on a train or something, I'm like grabbing onto my bag and you know, yeah, it's just not a way to feel. So yeah, but you don't want to sort of just be negative in your travel, but that's kind of just I think when you go on holiday, you want to be relaxed, you know, this so absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

And I'm at the stage now I want to see more, I want to see stuff I haven't seen before. I don't want to keep returning to a country or a city just because I like it. I want to see more while I can.

SPEAKER_05 11:41

Yeah, yeah. And I also don't want to just tick off, you know, okay, I've seen the Eiffel Tower. I've seen, you know, I actually want to go and say, okay, did you know I found this beautiful little cafe in blah blah blah? And you know, that's the way I like to travel, you know. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 11:57

I like all the species for people watching that. My my family call me a mere cat because I'm literally like at a coffee shop going, like fashion and like, you know, just people watching. And so I could be very happy just sitting in a cafe for a couple of hours just doing that. Like that would be like really, really fun for me, you know, like rather than sitting on a beach.

SPEAKER_07 12:16

I don't know, just that's not really gravity.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

I'd just say my husband and I have a new style of travel. I've noticed the last couple of years. When we go somewhere, we look for the oldest pub, the oldest you know, cafe, the oldest, you know, just to be able to sit amongst that history now and and relax, you know, and enjoy a a drink or a coffee and taking, you know, where you are, how amazing it is, rather than oh look, I'm here because everyone said I've got to go here.

SPEAKER_05 12:41

You know, because that's love that is the one thing I'm in two minds about, right? Is because I love the fact that I can go on social media and see this cute little thing that's oh my god, it's looks beautiful. But the problem I have is that okay, I've gone on social media, so has 55,000 other people and seen this cafe now. And you they that's I'm in two minds, because in my job, I I do this myself, but I like I find something and I want to share it with all my community, but then I'm like, oh, it's kind of spoils it because then there's a line down the road, you know.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

Have you heard what's happening in Jerengong? I was gonna say that's a beautiful beach called Seven, I think it's Seven Mile Beach in Jerengong. And there's a street that goes down, and it's I've been there years ago, and now it's become a social media haven, and there are thousands of people there every day. The locals have had enough.

SPEAKER_06 13:36

Yeah. I was gonna say that also leads into what I was gonna also say about travel as you get older, is I would say a good 80% of our travel now is really led by friends. So go see friends, like if a friend suddenly moves to like Copenhagen, for example, which happened a couple of years ago, that's led my desire to go to Copenhagen because my friend lives there, and I want to go and spend some time with those friends. And you also know that by living there, they know like all the cafes and know what to see, they know where to go for the best, whatever food is in that area. And I would say, like, I've got two trips just planned this year, one to Aston and one to Sydney, nothing very exciting, except both of those trips are led by people. I wouldn't be going if it wasn't for the people. So I would say that, you know, and next year for going to Scotland for a wedding, again, led by the people. You know, we probably will go off and do something else, but we wouldn't be going unless there was a wedding. So for me, I feel like in this phase of my life, a lot of it is led by people either arranging to go with friends or going to meet friends in their where they're living now, which I think as an expat, that's one of the things we're so lucky about. You know, we've got friends all over the world now, so we're just so lucky.

SPEAKER_05 14:48

Yeah. I do agree. And you know, you're but you're perfectly right. I only came to Melbourne to to have your to go to your birthday. Uh which was fabulous because I love that area. I we went and had a oh, isn't it amazing? Oh my gosh. Isn't it beautiful?

SPEAKER_03 15:02

Oh my god. I can't wait to come back.

SPEAKER_06 15:05

I know come down. You have to come and see me. My daughter just bought a new couple. Look at that. Yeah, isn't it beautiful? I'm just happy because I think we've had a reception out here for some reason. So I'm just happy here.

SPEAKER_05 15:17

It does look like it's gonna is it gonna rain there?

SPEAKER_06 15:19

It's a bit sunny, yeah. It's not it's not exactly sunny, but yeah. Oh, and here's my puppy. Do you want to see my puppy? Yes, please.

SPEAKER_07 15:25

Oh my gosh. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 15:26

Joe just got a new puppy. It's so cute.

SPEAKER_07 15:31

You're gonna be named him.

SPEAKER_05 15:33

Here we are. He's got the best name. What did you name him, Joe? Haggis. There he is. Haggis. Very that's it's very cool for uh husband for Scottish.

SPEAKER_06 15:50

I know. Well, I mean I have to be fair, like it probably wasn't my first choice in name, but it's growing on me. It's growing on me. We can call him Cats for short.

SPEAKER_05 15:59

That's very cute. Okay, on to the second question. So travel while you can is that framing doing us a disservice. Example, younger travelers are being told to slow down, older travelers uh get travel while you can urgency. What's going on there and what which script is serving us better? You go, Deborah.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

I have to think about that one. I could never, no matter what age I am, treat travel as an urgency though. Like I don't I travel because I enjoy it, I don't travel because I feel I need to do it, I feel I need to see this place, I feel I need to go there, I feel I travel because wow, you know, I just love learning about new cultures, new civilization, you know, some history, to see beautiful nature. Joe's gone.

SPEAKER_05 16:44

Joe's gone and you're frozen.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

Okay, Joe's gone. Okay, start again. So I would never get the urgency of travel because I don't I don't travel with any urgency. I don't feel like I need to see something. I need to be somewhere by a certain time, I need to see everything. Sometimes, you know, we'll be sitting on a lounge and Michael and I'll go, we haven't been here before, have we? Let's go there. Yeah. Yeah. And that's I think we've always been that way. I don't think we've ever had an urgency that gotta go here, gotta go see that, gotta be here, you gotta I couldn't travel that way. That's not enjoyable. Not to me.

SPEAKER_06 17:16

Oh yeah, go, go, Joe. I was just gonna say that I would say the same thing. Like there were many years where, you know, when you had younger kids that travel was just not a priority, mortgages and like I trapped a lot in my youth. Yeah, I mean my youth before I got married. Like I actually lived abroad in Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates and was doing my midwifery there. And so I did lots of travel when I was young, lived in the UK for, you know, in Scotland for a couple of years, etc. Yeah, I just sort of think when when we got married and had children, it just became very, very low down on the party schedule. And we didn't really have the money for it, to be honest. And I was very lucky and fortunate that my family would organise uh holidays twice a year, and we just went locally, you know, to Wilson's Prom or South Australia where I'm from. And that was the same for maybe 10-15 years. We'd go on an occasional trip to Scotland to see my husband's family, but that was about it. And it really wasn't until we became expats, probably about 10 years ago, that we did a lot more travel through Asia and Europe, etc. So I did do the backpacking when I was in my early 20s. Yes. I

Travel Priorities and Phases

SPEAKER_06 18:19

lived in a couple of different places, but really once I got married and had children, there was a good 15 years we didn't travel because it wasn't a priority. Yes. And now what I would say is it's a priority because we want to do it. And where we, you know, you know, at the moment my husband's still working, so we don't really have the holidays and the time. But once he retires, we definitely will do a little bit of travel. But to be honest, when you've done so much travel in the last 10 years, I don't know about you, but I'm quite happy to sit put, you know, for a bit. So yeah, I would say it's it's something I love to do, really love to do, but it's probably not a priority at certain times in your life.

SPEAKER_05 18:52

Yeah. I I've got a completely different stance. I my problem is that yeah, I wanted to see the whole world before my children have their own children because I know I don't want to do it then. So I'm like, I want to see the whole world in a few years. I'm hoping it's like 10 years, but I don't know. Who knows with the kids, right? So I feel like I want to see, like, my problem is it's not that I want to go to a place and want to see a thousand things. Biggest problem is I want to see the whole world today. Do you know what I mean? Like uh I want to go, I want there to be so like so much time that I can, you know, spend a whole month, uh which is what I've been doing actually. I've been spending a whole month in in places rather than a week or two. And so that has been very rewarding, you know. Like I did a whole month in Canada.

SPEAKER_06 19:44

I think traditionally that's been on my bucket list, is like, you know, when you're saying about travel, but I mean on my bucket list traditionally, and I might get there again. I don't know if it's just this whole move home and it's just been a bit exhausting, etc. But yeah, I just feel like on my bucket list it was always to go and live somewhere, you know, like to do that whole thing of getting an Airbnb in a little village in France or Italy or somewhere like that, and actually just that was our plan for the first probably 10 years of our retirement, which will be in maybe two or three years' time. And I'm sure I'll get there again, but just at the minute, I think you go through phases, don't you? Just at the minute, my love of travel has probably waned a bit just because I've I've sort of overdosed a bit in the last couple of years, but yeah, I'm sure it will come back because it is within me. It very much is within me, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:27

Yeah, because I I I understand what you mean. Like sometimes because you've just moved home. It's not like just moved home.

SPEAKER_07 20:33

Like six six months ago.

SPEAKER_06 20:35

So we've established a house, you know, I've got myself a little casual job, I've like, you know, got my little puppy, and so I feel like this is my nesting kind of period. So I am in a different phase, I think. But I think it will come back again. Yeah, because I've always loved travel since I mean I lived overseas when I was 11 or 12 with my family when my dad worked in like so I feel that. Yeah, so I feel like I went to school in England and everything for a year, and I think like my love of travel and my kids have both got a love of travel. We've just always loved it. So it will come back. I know it will come back, it's just not quite there at the minute, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:08

That makes sense. I'm just chasing my puppy because he's gone up in the wrong area. Wait a minute, come.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Come here. Yeah. And it's just different life stages. We go through different life stages and travel will change. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 21:20

I um I always say I always kind of go away and then I cannot wait to get back and be in my own bed and choose my own clothes out of my wardrobe. And not have to get packaging bags. Yeah, I do I do love that when I come home. But for me, and I don't know if it's my where I am in my life at the moment, but I'm home two weeks and I'm like, it's tired. I get itchy.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

This is the longest I've I've been home and I'm very itchy at the moment. So I'm trying to find excuses to go somewhere.

SPEAKER_05 21:50

Yes, exactly. Yeah, I know, I know. Like I'm although at the moment for me, it's as long as I've been in Australia for ages. So I've been here like since Easter. What's that? Month. I've been back in between. You haven't been back. No. I've been here a month and I fly out on Monday. I'm not looking forward to it because I'm actually it's not it's not on a holiday. It's uh I'm moving home to I'm moving to Hong Kong. Yeah and then I'm off to the States for a month. So that I'm actually excited about that because I'm in the processing, I'm in the planning period of it, and I'm really enjoying it. And what are you doing in the United States, Paula? Um I'm going to a conference, a women's international travel conference, and then I'm off to Maine. So that's in Chattanooga, and then I'm off to Maine. I'm really looking forward to that. I'm doing a seven-day charter.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

It looks beautiful. I'd love to see that one day.

SPEAKER_05 22:42

Yeah, so that that, and then I'm down doing Route 66 with Calm. You know, everyone knows Calm. She was on my uh episode with uh about Mexico. So yeah, so we're doing Route 66 from uh where she's moved to down to Chicago, and then I'm trying really hard. I know this is like one side of America to the next. It's a very big country. Yeah, and I'm supposed to be going to Jersey to visit some friends, but I'm not sure if I can because this main one has has wasn't gonna be there, but it's just slipped in. I'm not sure if I'm gonna make it. But yeah, I'm doing that. I'm really excited. I haven't been to the US since before COVID. So exciting.

SPEAKER_06 23:21

Oh, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 23:22

So the last question I have for you is nine in ten Americans now say they prefer quiet destinations over the big name hotspots, which we discussed before. Is there a famous place you'd tell women our age to skip and where would you send them instead?

SPEAKER_07 23:38

Hmm.

SPEAKER_06 23:40

Well, I think what Webb's discussed

Future Travel Plans

SPEAKER_06 23:42

is like big cities. Like I think maybe it was just stick to that. Like there's no I mean, unless you really need to go to Paris to see the Eiffel Tower, you know, or the Louvre to see something or whatever, but maybe you go in, go on a guided tour for three days. I suppose that's the other thing I could talk about a bit is in my youth I never did guided tours, you know, never. As I'm getting a bit older, we've worked out the only way to travel, you know, like because you know, you've got someone who's organized all your accommodation or your transfers or your flights, all your scriptures. And so basically you could you could probably go to Paris for two days on a tour or something and feel quite safe and and enjoy it. But then why not get into the countryside and just enjoy like sitting in a little piazza or you know, having they've still got beautiful museums in the smaller towns in those European countries. Yeah. I suppose the other thing, I'm talking a bit about Europe just because that's where we're sort of going a lot more recently. Yeah, I mean, I uh there's nowhere really in Asia I'd say not to go. I mean, I think we've really I mean Vietnam is a great place to go for for anybody. I I know a lot of friends have gone to Vietnam recently. It's cheap, it's safe, it's easy to get around, the food is amazing. Yeah, yeah. Most people love going to Vietnam. So that's what I would say. What about you?

SPEAKER_03 24:55

It's hard, right? Because I feel like everyone travels for a different reason. I feel like it's a very personal reason why you travel. So it's hard to dissuade someone if they've decided to go somewhere. Um I I would offer advice if I had been there. You know, uh like Joe says, yeah, yeah. If you if you can stay maybe outside the city of Paris and go stay, you know, somewhere down south or up north in the Champagne region, or you know, go onto the coast in Brittany, and then go into Paris for a day trip. But other than that, I'd find it hard to dissuade anyone from travel is very personal, and you it is very personal. You should choose and do what you want to do. Which is why we're enjoying this stage of life, right? Because we can do what we want to do now. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:39

Like there's an example, I suppose, with Morocco is that a lot of people wouldn't go to Morocco because they feel it's unsafe. And that's why I went on a tour. And I felt completely safe on the tour I was in, and the guides were amazing. And that's like with Paula, like, you know, I mean, if you do it with a tour, it is perfectly safe. But as a single woman going to her own, probably I probably wouldn't advise that. But I did it. I know. I've been to Morocco twice, and I would go back again tomorrow if I could, but I probably wouldn't want to go on my own, you know.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

If we've got travel smarts, like we we're travelers, we we've got travel smarts. If you don't have travel smarts, then no, a country like that is probably not recommended on your own.

SPEAKER_05 26:18

Yeah. It's funny you say that, Joe, because I would have said, not that I say skip Marrakesh because it's amazing, yeah, but I would highly recommend just going like just for a day or so and heading down out to the Sahara Desert and staying there. Like I stayed three nights in a place that was almost pretty much off the grid, you know, and it was the best trip I've ever had in my life. It was looking at the stars, it was, you know, going for a picnic in the desert with with ostriches, it was learning the culture and sitting by a campfire, it was surreal, you know, like and it outweighs anything I've ever done before because it's not just unique, but it's just so quiet out there.

SPEAKER_06 27:05

Yeah, I would say the same. Like I love Marrakesh, because as we all know, I love shopping. So Marrakech is shopping, and I did love that, but I would h100% agree. Go to the smaller places, go out the way, go and stay in because we stayed in an amazing, like like little boutique hotel. And that's guy used to be a chef in like New York, and he's opened up his hotel, and he's it's all like a farm to table type thing. He's got you know, so you can walk amongst all his vegetables in the garden, and you're literally in this little village where there's like mountains and river beds, and you know, you can uh like walk around. Yeah, it was fantastic, like very magical. Yeah, it's a great place to go.

SPEAKER_05 27:43

It is at any age. I think it's just absolutely magical. And I cannot wait to get back there because I'm going again in September with a group of women, so it's going to be very different, but it's equally, I think it's going to be amazing. Be amazing. Do you have anything else you'd like to add before we jump off? No, not really. I think we're all good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

No. Just enjoy where you go. You know, enjoy it. Because as Joe mentioned before, it especially at the moment, it's horrifically expensive at the moment to travel. So, you know, never take it for granted.

SPEAKER_05 28:18

Yeah. Yes, exactly. I I think COVID taught us that.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

Yeah, and immerse yourself. Like I can be in a place for a couple of hours and still, you know, feel like I've seen the place if I see the place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just immerse yourself where you can. I like that. Immerse yourself where you can.

SPEAKER_05 28:34

So thank you so much for coming on. I really, really, really, really appreciate it. I know you're both very busy. So yeah, until next time, safe travels and I'll see you later.

unknown 28:44

Bye. Thank you guys.

SPEAKER_05 28:45

Thank you for joining me on the Truly Expat Travel Podcast. If you liked this episode and you found it valuable, then why don't you go ahead and like and subscribe so that you don't miss an episode moving forward. I've got some amazing guests and some fantastic destinations coming up. But if this is the episode and this is the destination that you really want to go to, then I suggest you head over to truly expatravel.com where you'll find travel guides and deep dive into this sort of destination.

unknown 29:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 29:19

If that's not what you want and you can't find an episode that is a destination you want to travel to, then head over and follow me on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok. Because I'm pretty sure you'll find something there. But in the meantime, safe travels and I'll see you next week.