Paula Barnes (00:00.024)
talking about something and then you go, stop, whatever, just fine, we'll just edit it all out. And if there's something later on that you feel like, shouldn't have said it, message me and I'm happy to get rid of it all. The other thing is, if you can send me a photo of yourself or any links you would like me to add to the show notes, please do that as well. Last but not least, this will actually be on YouTube, just so you know. So that's why I've got the visual.

Stacy McCandless (00:04.103)
Okay.

Cool.

Stacy McCandless (00:28.957)
Okay. I wish I had links like prepared for you, but I don't, but I can send you a photo, but I don't have links prepared. wish I did.

Paula Barnes (00:29.866)
That's just something new,

Paula Barnes (00:36.248)
That's fine. If you've got anything you'd like, like any social media or anything, this will go up in March. So you've got some time if you feel you've thought of something or whatever, please send it along. Because at the end of the day, I want to help you as much as this is going to help me. Does that make sense?

Stacy McCandless (00:57.702)
Yeah, sure.

Paula Barnes (00:58.614)
Okay, so I also don't do just a intro anymore. I just go kind of straight into it. You'll just talk about, you your journey, how you landed in Vietnam, and then we'll go through the questions. Do you have any questions for me before we start? No? Okay.

Stacy McCandless (01:14.21)
No, I just hope I can think of things and then I'm not going like, what's the name of that? Anyway.

Paula Barnes (01:18.958)
That's my life at the moment and I do that often. you know, you're not in... We can also always stop and Google something. So don't worry about too much. Okay. So let's get started. So today's guest, special guest is someone who I've met, so lives in Singapore, met in Singapore and is a person who has lived in... Let me start again. See, I did it. Ready?

Stacy McCandless (01:23.185)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (01:28.645)
Okay. Actually, I should do that actually.

Paula Barnes (01:49.267)
So today's special guest...

Stacy McCandless (01:49.853)
I'm gonna put my phone on. I'm gonna put my phone on silent. It is on silent, there we go. Only thing that might interrupt us is I don't know how to silence WhatsApp on my computer. So that's a bit annoying.

Paula Barnes (02:03.896)
you know what? Yeah, I don't know how to do that either. I am.

Stacy McCandless (02:07.335)
So if it interrupts us, I apologize. We can just go back and, yeah. Yeah, okay. Sorry, go ahead.

Paula Barnes (02:09.72)
We could stop. We could stop and talk. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Let me start again. So today's guest is very special. So she's a friend of mine who lives in Singapore, but we're going to talk about somewhere special. Somewhere special that she knows a lot about, but I'll let her tell you where the destination is and a little bit about herself. So welcome Stacey.

Stacy McCandless (02:16.669)
you

Stacy McCandless (02:34.065)
Hello, hello everyone.

Paula Barnes (02:35.63)
So let's find out a little bit about you. Who are you and how did you, what is your expat journey and how did you get there?

Stacy McCandless (02:45.455)
Well, straight out of university, I went to Japan. I was cast at Disney in Tokyo, and I was the opening cast for Tokyo Disney Sea. So that was super amazing. Obviously, it was a great opportunity. And then I just really fell in love with Japan, and I wanted to go back after my contract had ended.

Paula Barnes (03:02.954)
Yeah!

Stacy McCandless (03:14.235)
I had a degree in teaching English as a second language, so I knew I could do that if I wanted to. So I did, I went back and then, funny enough, I ended up working with Disney again, but not in the park. I ended up doing some tours and things with them. And I ended up doing a lot of voice work and working with the media.

And every time I said I was only there for a year, it turned into several other years and I was there for 10 years. Yeah. And so I was not an expat. I was just there on my own, finding work and freelancing as a voice actress and a singer. And I started a business doing birthday parties for a little while.

and was doing a lot of birthday parties for expats, which was actually the first time I ever heard the term before. I didn't know what an expat was, and that's why I learned about it. And families were hiring us, well myself and then others to come and do their birthday parties. And we had lots of themes and pirates and princesses and all of the sorts, which was fun. And then I was doing a lot of voice work, documentaries and animation and...

all of that, which was super fun and I loved it. But I kept finding new and exciting things and reasons to stay. But then I met my husband, which was also a nice reason to stay. But he and we got married in Japan in a government office. And then he was an expert from Australia. Scottish parents.

Paula Barnes (04:51.883)
wow.

Stacy McCandless (05:01.841)
Australian citizenship anyway, so he also had moved around a lot as I had before and So we met and married in Tokyo and then probably a year in he got the offer to go to Vietnam so I was like, yeah, let's do it. We're young we have no children like no, let's let's sign up Let's go explore the unknown which at was 2011

Yeah, 10, 11, was still very much underdeveloped in some areas in Vietnam, which is definitely different from the way it is now. And so I was like, yeah, let's go. And then we signed the contract. We got officially married in a government office. And then we're like, yeah, let's go be young and travel. And then I was pregnant.

So yeah, that was a bit of a surprise because I think had we realized that we probably would have stayed in Japan because where we went in Vietnam was No Trang and No Trang was at that time pretty underdeveloped. There was like one or two hotels, no like working supermarket. It was all kind of wet markets and no English speakers. There was a lot of Russian.

ex-pats there and had started businesses, a lot of Russians and some Chinese, and that was it at that time. so, yeah, having a baby was really, really tricky in that city. So we ended up landing in Ho Chi Minh City first because the owners of, sorry, my husband was opening a hotel. I should probably say that he's in hotels. Anyway, started there because the...

Paula Barnes (06:46.518)
Okay. Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (06:55.003)
beginning stages was like putting teams together and it was just a concrete kind of shell at the beginning. So a lot of his work was in Ho Chi Minh at the beginning. So ended up there, met some women to have sort of a baby group with and Ho Chi Minh City was thriving and an awesome place to be for that. But Notre Angle was not. And I was still, actually while I was pregnant, still finishing up

Contracts on my own in Japan. So I was going back and forth to Japan while I was pregnant and I had a place I was staying in Japan and actually did not know until last days where I would deliver because my doctors were in Japan and then I didn't have a place to stay other than like so like People's yeah, that's that wasn't gonna work out great. But then I got last minute I got Permission

Paula Barnes (07:26.801)
okay.

Paula Barnes (07:39.118)
Wow.

Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (07:52.487)
from the insurance that I was on to deliver in America, which was great because everybody wants their mom, right, for their first baby. So I was able to go and see Lent's Day with my parents when I had my son in 2012. But at that time, my husband was in Notre. He had moved. so we kind of back and forth between Notre and Ho Chi Minh for quite a few years.

Paula Barnes (07:54.68)
Yep.

Yeah, yeah.

Paula Barnes (08:10.226)
wow.

Stacy McCandless (08:21.385)
and then we, no, trying that hotel opened at the same time, my husband's mother in Adelaide was, failing from like late stage Alzheimer's. So we tried to get back to Adelaide and the company who helped us out and we were able to go there, but unfortunately she passed away right before we got there. But we ended up in Adelaide for.

Paula Barnes (08:27.256)
Mm-hmm.

Paula Barnes (08:33.176)
Bye.

Paula Barnes (08:45.774)
Oh, that's a shame.

Stacy McCandless (08:49.309)
few years and we had our second child there. then I don't know how many of you would be familiar with Adelaide, for my husband's sort of career is all in development in new hotels and things, Adelaide's a bit sleepy for him. So yeah, he was like, I loved it. I absolutely adored it. It was filled with the arts and

Paula Barnes (08:52.366)
Yep. Okay.

Paula Barnes (09:10.83)
It's the church city,

Stacy McCandless (09:18.033)
But he was a bit itchy and then an opportunity came up to go back to Hanoi, to Vietnam. But this time in Hanoi. And he was going to be like in charge of an area. So we did that. And went to Hanoi with the two children. My daughter was just two when we went back to Vietnam. And then...

Paula Barnes (09:40.252)
well.

Stacy McCandless (09:45.725)
We were in Hanoi for a little while and then the area role became kind of a country role for my husband. then, so I was very disappointed at, because I was working in a very successful Reggio Emilia kindergarten, managing a kindergarten. And loved that in Hanoi. And my kids went there, which was even super bonus. Because, yeah, being an expat and finding

Paula Barnes (10:07.754)
Okay. Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (10:13.637)
well, being a dependent expat and finding work is always a challenge. But that was, in Vietnam, was much easier, definitely much easier than Singapore. So that, I mean, that's probably a good thing to ask me about later, that, so that was sad. But then we ended up trying to open in Saigon in Ho Chi Minh City.

Paula Barnes (10:15.384)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paula Barnes (10:30.658)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (10:41.917)
when we went back there. So I was kind of doing that and then my husband was working and then COVID. So we were all in COVID, in Ho Chi Minh for the whole of it, which initially was awesome because Vietnam locked down immediately in January of 2020. And because they did that, there were zero cases.

Paula Barnes (10:48.374)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (11:11.205)
really in the country. But the borders are locked. But because of that, no tourists were coming in and all of these resorts and everything were cheap. And we, so everyone inside the country at that time, it's definitely for 2020, made like amazing, especially expats, but also just Vietnamese friends made super, super tight connections, which has always been like a super plus about being an expat is that you just make these friendships.

with people in similar circumstances and and that was really amazing but because the resorts and everything were cheap and like desperate for customers we did we traveled a lot within the country and with groups of friends and got to see a lot in that time and because I knew Hanoi I took friends from from Ho Chi Minh up to the north and and so that was

Paula Barnes (11:50.83)
Bye.

Stacy McCandless (12:10.513)
great, there's beautiful properties in Da Nang and in the middle that we also got to know very well. It was just lovely. It's definitely like a happy place in the middle of the country for me because it always meant like holiday.

Paula Barnes (12:25.59)
And yeah, yeah, definitely. And so where are we talking about today in terms of the destination? Because you've in a few places in Vietnam.

Stacy McCandless (12:36.401)
Yes, I lived in Ho Chi Minh, Nha Trang and Hanoi and definitely traveled a lot within the middle of the country too in Da Nang and recently took a group to Quy Nhân and Quy Nhân I think will be the next travel destination if that's what you're asking me.

Paula Barnes (12:59.883)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (13:03.758)
So I guess today we'll talk about a city. So what city would you like or place would you like to talk about?

Stacy McCandless (13:10.629)
Okay.

Well, I suppose maybe we let you guide that. Sorry, my earpiece is doing strange things.

Paula Barnes (13:21.304)
That's okay.

Okay, let's go with, which city do you know the best? We'll cut all this bit up.

Stacy McCandless (13:27.729)
Well, I know Ho Chi Minh City as far as living and being a resident, but it's not where I would send people. like, I like living there, but I think as far as, so maybe this is worth noting. So definitely as a tourist, the North has a lot to offer, a lot more, you get a more authentic Vietnamese feel, the architecture is there, the history, there's,

Paula Barnes (13:38.284)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (13:49.933)
Okay.

Stacy McCandless (13:57.345)
the rice fields to different types of weather. There's a lot more if you're into trekking as I'm into trekking. There's just a lot more authentic culture and the food is, I just love the food in the north. But it is, yeah, it's very different. In the middle, it's sort of more like chill. It's like really temperate weather. It's pretty much always nice except for the rainy season, which

Paula Barnes (14:14.21)
Is it different? Okay. Okay.

Stacy McCandless (14:27.837)
is kind of November to January rainy and flooding in the middle, which just happened really bad this year. But other than that, like super stunning temperatures, but it's beach, like it's more relaxed. It's beach villages, it's fishing villages, it's chill. And then Ho Chi Minh City is basically Bangkok like 10 years ago, 15 years ago.

Paula Barnes (14:34.508)
Yeah, yeah, okay.

Stacy McCandless (14:54.749)
It's a bustling city, lots happening. There's like lots of foreigners there so you can get any kind of food you want. The convenience of living there as an expat is super amazing because the cost of living is still low, but you still have access to everything there is. Like in comparison to Hanoi, there are like six, seven international schools where in Hanoi you really kind of only have two.

So school, just convenience as living as an expat, Pochamon City has like a lot. I mean it is crowded, but there's like such a, an amazing like delivery kind of a system where you can get like even just getting around. you're, if you're okay with jumping on the back of a motorbike and not being in a car, it's a pretty easy city to navigate and you can just kind of find what you're looking for. If that means like,

Paula Barnes (15:40.398)
Mm.

Stacy McCandless (15:54.321)
gymnastics classes for your child, or if it means rooftop bars with a view and a mystery cocktail. It kind of has everything if you're going to live there. But tourism-wise, it's not great because you do get stuck in traffic. feel like the... just the tourism's kind of built around the Vietnam War in America. So, I mean, it was just so long ago now and I feel like it's...

Paula Barnes (15:55.8)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (16:04.012)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (16:13.336)
So, okay.

Paula Barnes (16:19.17)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (16:23.259)
weird focus because it's so like at the time at the war finished Ho Chi Minh was like a completely different place to where it is now. So to kind of like focus on it just because of the the tourist part it's weird. I just I don't I think it's better to focus on like getting a really good coffee or so for for me like living wise I love Ho Chi Minh City but traveling wise as a tourist.

Paula Barnes (16:42.124)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (16:50.181)
and then just enjoying like being on a holiday and the convenience of things. It's not where I would focus.

Paula Barnes (16:54.573)
Yeah.

So then I guess the next question is, if someone came to you, a friend, and said, okay, I'm coming to Vietnam, I've only got a short amount of period of time, where do I go? Where would you recommend?

Stacy McCandless (17:02.193)
Mm-hmm.

Stacy McCandless (17:07.57)
Mm-hmm.

Well, I always like, I mean, people ask me that like every day. And I think it's like my first question is like, have you been there before? Because so if it's no, I would say, well, it kind of depends on time of year, but I would say go to the middle because it's easy. So everything is on. I mean, there are so many blogs and so many listings of like things to do in Da Nang and Hoi It's all set up.

Paula Barnes (17:19.938)
Say I say no. Let's say no. Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (17:36.913)
But the problem is, is there are so many tourists and you're going to get kind of a package of what people consider their holiday. that's not so authentic. Like you will get authentic food, but you won't necessarily get like everyday village life or anything. But it's still super nice. It's definitely affordable. You can stay in some beautiful luxury hotels for, you know,

Paula Barnes (17:50.626)
Yep. Yep.

Stacy McCandless (18:06.013)
$100 a night. mean, it's very practical price wise. The ambiance is so nice. You can be on the river, you can be on the ocean, you can see some amazing temples and you're like right in the middle of like jungles and monkeys and fishing boats. It's all kind of there and it's not necessary to spend your whole time getting around like the travel is. But

Paula Barnes (18:06.99)
Yeah, it's quite affordable.

Paula Barnes (18:32.012)
Yeah, yeah.

Stacy McCandless (18:36.451)
If you're interested in trekking and just seeing something really rural, then I would go north. Definitely go towards the Chinese border. The Lao border is super nice. I love this place called Mai Chau. I've only been there, maybe I've been there twice. It's been a little while. I just loved it. It was all in the middle of the rice fields. It's different kind of person that goes on that holiday though, because if you're not okay getting on the back of a motorbike,

Paula Barnes (18:42.252)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (18:49.304)
Okay.

Stacy McCandless (19:06.525)
in a road, like a dirt road, it's not for you. But if you're cool with that, or if you just get a driver and you can just be in the car for little while to get there, those places are stunning. And you're gonna see something that's not just a postcard, it's real. You'll see the older ladies going through collecting the rice, harvesting the rice. You'll get that without, I don't know, the...

Paula Barnes (19:06.53)
Yeah, forget it.

Paula Barnes (19:11.394)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (19:34.51)
Massive tour buses that go by and stop, yeah.

Stacy McCandless (19:36.879)
Yeah, without the tour buses and out without like the, sometimes they just put a little package of this is what Vietnam is, but it's not necessarily every day Vietnam. It's more like, here's what we have on showcase. Yeah, go ahead. if you're. Yes. And, and that, if you are going to do the North, you kind of need to have a good chunk of time. Like 10 days is pretty perfect for the.

Paula Barnes (19:48.098)
So would you, where would you fly into? Do you fly into Hanoi to get to the north? Okay.

Stacy McCandless (20:05.473)
north but if you have less I would kind of sort of choose what you're going to do. I wouldn't go to the north if you have less than five days because there's a lot of sitting in the car. It's a lot to get around unless you just go to Hanoi and you just see Hanoi which has a lot to do. I wouldn't go if you had less than five days. Where definitely five days in Da Nang and Hoi is plenty.

Paula Barnes (20:11.832)
Mm-hmm.

Paula Barnes (20:17.579)
Okay, okay.

Okay.

Paula Barnes (20:26.85)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (20:34.336)
Okay, that's what you would recommend. If you've only got a few five days or just a week, then we stick with the middle. And then if you've got extra time, then you go up north. Is that what saying?

Stacy McCandless (20:34.693)
So.

Stacy McCandless (20:42.459)
Mm-hmm.

Stacy McCandless (20:46.397)
Yeah, it definitely is what you're after. I mean, if you just have like a short trip and you just want to go someplace affordable and have like five star food experiences, you could do that. But if you want to go and see countryside, if you really want like a good taste of what the country is about, yeah, having a little bit longer time and seeing something outside the cities is nice.

Paula Barnes (21:04.78)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (21:14.84)
And so, okay, so I always go back to food, right? Because I love food. for those who are their first time in the middle of Vietnam, what do I have to try?

Stacy McCandless (21:19.399)
Yep.

Stacy McCandless (21:27.9)
Mm-hmm.

Bun Bo Hui. Bun Bo Hui is the city, the citadel, the old capital. And this is the, so it's named after that. But Bun Bo Hui is the type of noodle. So bun is noodle and Bun Bo Hui is like a noodle that kind of has a hole through the middle, like kind of a long macaroni, but thinner and made from rice. And it's just the type of noodle. the Bun Bo Hui is, it's the style of making

Paula Barnes (21:31.978)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (21:42.508)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (21:48.104)
Okay.

Stacy McCandless (22:00.027)
soup. It's thicker than a pho and it has lots more herbs. And I think the herbs and it's just like, it's a hearty soup where pho can be light and pho is more like for breakfast anyway. It's meant to be lighter. It's not heavy. Yeah, pho is what you have for breakfast if you're Vietnamese. Pretty much like a pho and like a baguette. Like that's breakfast.

Paula Barnes (22:00.994)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (22:04.888)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (22:13.538)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (22:19.424)
Is it? Okay. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (22:30.149)
and lots and lots of fruit, which I miss living in Singapore because yes, because we have access to it here. It's not as fresh, but it's definitely more expensive. We're there. It's growing on all the trees around you as well. No, the fruit and the herbs, these are the things I miss about Vietnam. Yes, and well.

Paula Barnes (22:32.534)
Okay. Yay. Yes. And the cost of the fruit because you can eat.

Paula Barnes (22:53.366)
Yeah, is there a drink as well that you should try?

Stacy McCandless (22:59.599)
My favorite, so Vietnam is coffee. I mean, they are just like, it's all coffee. They're super special types of coffee. I mean, mostly what people know is that it's strong and that everyone's like, it's strong coffee. And it is, but it's like concentrated because they brew the coffee. If you're having a nice coffee, they brew like real strong, like kind of intense espresso.

Paula Barnes (23:02.977)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (23:12.152)
Yes.

Stacy McCandless (23:26.395)
And then it's condensed milk and ice and it's sweet. And, if it's hot, it's kind of the same way without the ice. It's strong, but it's also the way they make the coffee. And there's like lots of different types and grades of coffee, but that's sort of like what they celebrate. I saw I'm getting an echo in my ear. I'm not sure what's going on with my headphones. Okay. Well, if I sound funny, I apologize. the.

Paula Barnes (23:34.956)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (23:46.69)
How are you? You're not a company. That's a plan.

Stacy McCandless (23:55.215)
So my favorite though, because coffee is like, they are very proud of coffee. They will like showcase it to you. They have like all their different favorites. But my favorite is actually from Gong Cafe and Gong Cafe is a chain. It's spelled like C-O-N-G pronounced Gong. they're, especially in Ho Chi Minh City, they're like kind of everywhere. But they have my favorite one. And it's basically like, so they have the coffee and then they

Paula Barnes (24:07.554)
Yep. Okay.

Stacy McCandless (24:25.049)
in a, it's like condensed milk and coconut blended, like kind of like a smooth, like a frothy, like icy of coconut sweetness. And then they pour the coffee over that. So it's like this iced, like sweet cafe without having ever added any sugar to it other than what's in. yeah, exactly. So that was, that's definitely a favorite. I would say

Paula Barnes (24:29.571)
Wow.

Paula Barnes (24:34.627)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (24:46.562)
Yeah, what's in the condensed milk?

Stacy McCandless (24:55.037)
you get offered the local alcohol, be very careful because it is... Yeah, it's like turpentine, like the rice. I mean, it's made in these big jugs. mean, it's similar to China and... Yeah. I mean, I can't say as if I have any taste buds after tasting it, so I can't differentiate between them. But yeah, for me, Vietnam is...

Paula Barnes (24:59.726)
That's full on.

Paula Barnes (25:09.45)
and Indonesia, like, yeah.

Stacy McCandless (25:23.281)
Like don't have, they do make in Dalat, they do make wine in Dalat. Dalat is like where all the vegetables grow and it's all fresh. Don't drink the wine, definitely drink the smoothies, but don't, the wine is horrible, but the vegetables are great. Yeah, so for me it's all like fresh produce. If it comes off of a tree, eat it. If it doesn't, be careful in Vietnam.

Paula Barnes (25:28.181)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (25:46.058)
Okay, okay. And if it's cooked, right? If it's cooked, it should be okay, especially if it's vegetarian. No?

Stacy McCandless (25:52.591)
Like, well, no. yeah, if it's cooked, yeah, for sure. Sorry. People get sick two ways in Vietnam. Pate in the Banh Mi's, because it's been sitting out and because Banh Mi's are usually in those little like street, the wheelie carts and it just sits, know, so bacteria gets in there. So if you get a Banh Mi, you're pretty safe. Just don't get the pate. My husband was definitely sick a few times from Banh Mi.

Paula Barnes (26:02.798)
Paula Barnes (26:15.8)
That's interesting.

Paula Barnes (26:20.11)
Do know what? It's not just in, it's just not in Vietnam. I got very sick in Australia for the same reason. Like food poisoning sick, like yeah, anyway. Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (26:26.93)
Mm.

Stacy McCandless (26:31.005)
Pate is tricky, know? Pate is just like a temperature thing. have to like, anyway, so pate, and then the other thing is actually herbs and vegetables that have been washed in dirty water. And they've actually like best intentioned trying to keep it clean, but the water sometimes is the problem. So yeah, if it's cooked, you're great. But like, to be honest, that's not the case in Vietnam. Like herbs and vegetables are almost always not cooked.

Paula Barnes (26:39.99)
Really? okay, yeah.

Paula Barnes (26:51.277)
there.

Paula Barnes (26:57.014)
Yeah. Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (26:57.733)
And that's like one of the reasons I love the food so much is just like, there's just this toss of like amazing herbs on everything. and then the veg. So sometimes like a carrot like shredded carrot and stuff like that, like it's not cooked, but it's great. So you just have to be careful. Like if you have little tablets or anything, you can do that. it is not even like if you eat on the street, you're in trouble. And if you did a restaurant, you're not like it happens at restaurants too.

Paula Barnes (27:01.356)
and abandonment of it.

Paula Barnes (27:26.926)
Yeah, what about ice? Is ice okay?

Stacy McCandless (27:27.823)
It just kind of happens.

And it used to be a problem. don't think it's much of a problem anymore. I think it was the rule was something like if it has a hole in it, it's okay. And if it doesn't, don't have it. Or maybe I've got that backwards. So they have these ice machines and they have, make ice and it has like this hole through the middle. And I think that one was the safe one, but it's just less an issue now.

Paula Barnes (27:46.222)
Yes, yeah.

Stacy McCandless (27:56.507)
I mean, there's it's it's not eco nice at all, but like every place has these big blue jugs of water, like huge. So, I mean, you're going to get like whatever plastic contamination, because this is like how everybody has their water because they're but. You're not going to get sick from the water and the ice machines, it's mostly a matter of maintenance because it is hot. It's tropics like they just have to clean them often because the it's it's not the water itself, it's the machine.

Paula Barnes (28:02.86)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (28:12.908)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paula Barnes (28:22.2)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (28:26.171)
It's like it hasn't been cleaned. So I try to avoid ice, but I don't know anybody who's been sick from ice. It's pretty much just veg and pate that makes people sick and mosquitoes. Coke is good. If you don't drink Coke at all, I'm always like, maybe there's like, if you don't drink Coke at all, and then you have like a questionable street food or whatever, if you have a Coke afterwards, it kind of like kills whatever it is. And like,

Paula Barnes (28:37.578)
yeah, yeah, that's enough. Okay.

Stacy McCandless (28:54.501)
And I'm not kidding. Like it has saved a few people and they start to feel like, but I think if you drink it all the time, maybe it doesn't work. But yeah, something in that. And maybe there's like that great strong coffee will also like kill some of the bacteria. Yeah.

Paula Barnes (29:06.478)
So if I was to say what is the region famous for, what would you say?

Stacy McCandless (29:18.082)
Okay, so in the north, the region is, we're just talking about food.

Paula Barnes (29:23.075)
No, just in general, just what is it famous for for the region?

Stacy McCandless (29:26.511)
Okay, the north, I'll work down. So the north is definitely the beauty of the land. So you've got like your rice terraces in the north. And I don't want to just say Sapa because Sapa is definitely like over touristy now. There's just a lot of hotels and everything going in. If you go to the north and you want to see Sapa, like, because they're fengna, like...

Paula Barnes (29:47.598)
okay.

Stacy McCandless (29:55.079)
There's a lot of places around that area that haven't been as over developed, guess, overdeveloped like with, and they're a lot less money to stay at. Like kind of, you can sort of branch out or, but like doing ecotourism is great. If you look up ecotourism in that area, it's sort of more authentic. But Sapa is beautiful and,

Paula Barnes (30:02.104)
populated.

Stacy McCandless (30:21.981)
Fancy Pan, which I think you've been to, haven't you done to Fancy Pan? It's just like, it's just cool because you start out and maybe like 28 degrees and then you get to the top and it's like six. So you start and you're in like Sapa village. They've put in all these gondola like cable cars now, which take you up to the top of the mountains. And there's just stunning.

Paula Barnes (30:25.442)
No, I haven't, no.

Paula Barnes (30:45.259)
okay.

Stacy McCandless (30:51.719)
pagodas and everything to see up at the top. And then you, yeah, so you can start at the bottom and then cable car up. You can also hike up. It's just such an accomplishment to get to the top. The weather will definitely impact it, like how much you can see, because it's just so foggy up there, how much you can actually see the pagodas. So if you Google it, they pretty much always put on videos with no clouds or no fog.

Paula Barnes (30:53.836)
Nice. Yep.

Paula Barnes (31:12.462)
Hmm.

Paula Barnes (31:19.982)
Okay, yeah.

Stacy McCandless (31:21.085)
which is not very realistic, but I like being there in the fog and like it's just so, it's like spiritual, like being up that high and looking out on the rice fields and everything. So that is very cool. And then it's, mean, water buffalo are everywhere throughout the country, but it's just always so nice to see them and they're sort of the country's lawnmowers. They just like bring them through and.

Paula Barnes (31:29.068)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paula Barnes (31:34.242)
Yep. Yep.

Paula Barnes (31:41.806)
Okay, yeah.

Paula Barnes (31:48.174)
laughs

Stacy McCandless (31:51.547)
And then I, so kind of working down. So you've got Ha Long Bay, which is also very developed. I like Ha Long Bay, but please don't spend more than a day there. Like it's just like, or two days. There's just like, once you go out on the water, it's sort of like you've, it's just so many people. It's so, it's beautiful, but there are other places like I think you would enjoy more. And then like Hanoi itself is,

Paula Barnes (32:10.636)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (32:21.149)
amazing and fun city. close off the streets on the weekends along the lake. It's just a good place to hang out and just walk and be very chilled and relaxed. You can have an egg coffee, is when they froth up the coffee with egg instead of milk. Bun Cha is like super famous there. So you can go on. I really like food tours in the North because you go down these

I like them because you don't, it's not just about the food, it's about the alleys. So you go into like, you can see how people live, you can go and you can see like how the streets, how the neighborhoods kind of work. You're going where cars cannot go. Yeah, you just kind of go down these little alleys and see the food. So bun cha is like a barbecued pork. I don't actually eat pork myself, but I have had that. And it's like, it's just famous. And the smell is everywhere. Like this barbecue happiness that they.

Paula Barnes (32:52.194)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paula Barnes (33:03.064)
Hmm.

Stacy McCandless (33:17.927)
put on noodles and lots of herbs and then you have your coffee off or your beer. Beer's big there. Beer is good there as well. Every region has their own beer. I don't really have a favorite, yeah, beer is actually great. And let's just pretend it kills bacteria if you have the wrong street food. I don't know if that works, but we'll pretend. But yeah, let's see.

Paula Barnes (33:25.57)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (33:39.886)
Ha

Stacy McCandless (33:47.997)
Their museums in Hanoi are great. Like if you want like a historical walk in and in Hanoi, it's not just about the American Vietnam War. It's like all the French historical.

Paula Barnes (33:58.574)
Yeah, it's got a big French influence there too, right?

Stacy McCandless (34:02.855)
Well, they were French colonized for a long time. that for like the Vietnamese people, that kind of is sort of what they focus on. A lot of people do still speak French in the North. And it was just like, you know, this fight for independence, not from like the North and South, like maybe it has been imagined, but from just outside, like they just wanted to be their own country.

Paula Barnes (34:18.574)
I'll do that.

Paula Barnes (34:29.83)
Mm.

Stacy McCandless (34:33.021)
But you can see a lot of the old buildings and the French footprint is still really prevalent there. It's just like some really cool architecture. But you can go into like the old war, like prisons and things, but there's a lot of war monuments. And just...

Paula Barnes (34:37.133)
Hmm.

Paula Barnes (34:51.16)
Yeah, that's right.

Stacy McCandless (34:57.127)
What is my husband calls it? Canoodling, which is just like lots of people hanging out, having drinks and food on the grass. There's a lot of multi-generational outliving. so, I mean, I suppose that's case everywhere in Vietnam, but in Hanoi, there's a lot of parks and hanging out spots where people just get together outside. That part's pretty cool.

Paula Barnes (34:59.438)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (35:20.216)
Mm-hmm.

Stacy McCandless (35:23.261)
There's a woman's museum there, which is one of my very favorites. It's like the generations of women and how they kind of work together. Vietnam's a matriarchal society. It's just very different to much of Asia. I think that's worth paying attention to when you're in Vietnam. Most of the CEOs in the country are women.

Paula Barnes (35:27.041)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (35:51.32)
That's cool.

Stacy McCandless (35:52.797)
So that's definitely noticeable if you live there. There's not a lot of like, I don't know, chauvinistic, it's just a different way that the society runs, which is kind of interesting. And the Women's Museum sort of shows how that has come together. But what they really do very well is they show all the tribes. So there's like 36 tribes in Vietnam and...

Paula Barnes (35:56.76)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (36:01.441)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (36:19.109)
all these different dialects. And so when you go to the museum, you can see the different indigenous dress, like the wedding ceremonies, like all how it's different throughout like the whole country. So I love that museum. I think it's very well done. And in Hoi An, they have something similar recently. So there's this artist called Rehan, who's actually a friend of mine. And he has galleries there. He's a photographer and he,

Paula Barnes (36:31.074)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (36:48.721)
goes out to the rural areas and photographs and has some pretty cool techniques. But anyway, he has a museum in Hoi An that does similar to the Women's Museum where it just showcases all the different tribes and he's gone out and photographed them. And then he has like the traditional dresses and everything from all the villages. And so that part's kind of cool if you like the history part. Go ahead.

Paula Barnes (36:57.187)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (37:08.451)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (37:14.67)
Yeah. you had three days, if a friend was coming to visit and you had three days, where would you take them? What would an itinerary look like?

Stacy McCandless (37:22.055)
Mm-hmm.

Stacy McCandless (37:28.687)
Well, okay, if it's only three days, would want to go to Ho Chi Minh City. Because, I mean, especially if I'm along for the trip, because, well, there's just amazing dining. There's so much food at F &B like in Ho Chi Minh. It's not necessarily Vietnamese food. Like one of my favorite places is called Quince, and there are foreign chefs, but I mean, it's just amazing. And you get this full like five dine.

Paula Barnes (37:34.347)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (37:49.165)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (37:57.661)
five-star dining experience. There's a jazz bar up the top. I mean, there's some amazing Japanese food in Ho Chi Minh City. There's like a little Tokyo kind of area. It's a Le Tonton Street. And that has everything that I loved from being in Japan, like access to if I wanted to get.

Paula Barnes (38:16.109)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (38:25.053)
some tonkatsu ramen or whatever I want. Like it was there. But that area, it's just like the affordability and then just getting errands done. So for me, like I often go to Ho Chi Minh just to get stuff done. So all my tailors are there. Like I get my jewelry fixed. I get my framing done, like getting frames made in Singapore. But I just go and get all my stuff done. anytime.

Paula Barnes (38:28.034)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (38:39.488)
Okay. Wow. Yep.

Okay.

I guess.

Stacy McCandless (38:54.065)
like the hems on the husband's slacks or anything. It's just, so I, when I have a friend, like I just will take them and get them clothes made and take them to like some amazing dining, take a riverboat cruise. For three days going out on the river is definitely great. There's this yacht club called Ross, which is,

Paula Barnes (38:58.092)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (39:10.444)
Okay, yeah.

Stacy McCandless (39:22.703)
in district one and you can just get on the boat there. they have lots of dinner cruise things, but I wouldn't do the dinner ones. I would just do the boat cruise. Just like you can be more intimate with your group. The food's never good on those cruises at all, but the views are stunning. So going out on the river at night, trying to...

Paula Barnes (39:31.235)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (39:40.462)
Thank

Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (39:51.237)
It's hard if you're there for a weekend because a lot of the traffic. I would pick, yeah, if you can, but no, mean, if you have to go on the weekend, as you're just three days, probably would be a weekend. I would not try to see all the districts. I would kind of just hang out in like one and three. Three is, or two is where all the expats live.

Paula Barnes (39:54.072)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (39:59.598)
weekday.

Stacy McCandless (40:18.085)
in Ho Chi Minh City. So there is some pretty amazing dining there. But I would just kind of try and stay in more, just stay in one area if you can, so you don't spend time like getting stuck in traffic, which is a reality. It's not as bad as like Jakarta or some, even as KL, think Ho Chi Minh is easier. But I...

Paula Barnes (40:36.302)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, that was crazy. Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (40:45.285)
I mean, yeah, it's just like you've only got three days. I would just do that and I would just eat myself silly with some amazing food. I mean, there's a couple of fun places. They make chocolate. I have one in my freezer. I should grab it. I'll show it to you. Maru Chocolate has a couple of their factories. So you can go and...

Paula Barnes (41:10.573)
Okay.

Stacy McCandless (41:12.249)
and see how they make chocolate. Because the chocolate's like the coffee. It's like the real deal without all the... And it expires soon because it's all fresh. So that's nice. I would go to Marie Chocolate. I love that they have amazing vegetarian food. It's so good. And they have a... There's a chain. I don't know if it's a chain, but they have multiple locations.

Paula Barnes (41:20.832)
Okay, it's got real stuff.

Paula Barnes (41:33.422)
Thank you.

Stacy McCandless (41:40.197)
and it's called Hum, H-U-M-M. And for like really good authentic Vietnamese food, that's a good one. Even though it's vegetarian, it's like, it's so, it's just really good. Like they've done such a good job with their menu and they have super fun cocktails, which like all the authentic ingredients. can get anything from lemongrass martinis to like Pandan.

Paula Barnes (41:42.296)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (41:48.11)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (41:59.018)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (42:08.366)
Thank you.

Stacy McCandless (42:08.455)
Hibiscus like it's like their cocktails are really beautiful and fun and you can go out for a night of cocktails and fun for like $20 so that parts you Know Yeah, yeah, I mean that parts good. There's a lot of really good rooftop bars and My gosh the one I really like I cannot think of the name up for right now it birdcage or something. There's like a whole you go like

Paula Barnes (42:16.428)
Yeah, Compared to here.

Stacy McCandless (42:35.485)
There's a lot of these like speakeasy kind of places where you don't know where they are because they're on top of somebody's apartment block or like, so you go up like some backs, windy staircase that looks like you're going up to check the water heater, but you get up there and it's like this decadent, beautiful bar and you're overlooking the city. Ho Chi Minh is pretty temperate as well. So you kind of don't need to watch the time of year for the weather.

Paula Barnes (42:40.554)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (43:01.942)
Okay, okay.

Stacy McCandless (43:03.811)
they do have the rainy season, but it's kind of like Singapore in that it just kind of happens sometimes sporadically through. It doesn't rain all day. It just rains usually around three to five o'clock. You can still get a lot done. I wouldn't like the Mekong tours on the boats. Those are cool, but it's hot. It's hot on the Mekong.

Paula Barnes (43:17.026)
Yeah, so you still could do things even if it's wrong. Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (43:33.563)
So I would do a shorter one. I wouldn't do anything too long if you can try and do it just early morning, see like the floating markets. And then, I don't know, people do like the war stuff, like the tunnels. Tick a box.

Paula Barnes (43:46.67)
Yeah, I've done it. I think people find it. Yeah, for me, I was talking to someone about this yesterday actually. I'm not really a war history type of person. However, when I'm in a city or a country that has history, I like to find out more about that and what's going on just to, not to tick a box, but just to kind of understand it a little bit. But it's not my focus, if that makes sense.

Stacy McCandless (43:57.501)
Mm.

Stacy McCandless (44:06.098)
Mm-hmm.

Stacy McCandless (44:12.221)
Mm-hmm. Well, one thing, if people do go to the Choo Choo Tunnels, there is an amazing gin distillery there. Madame Lou, Madame Lowe. I've just gone funny on that pronunciation. yeah, lady, yes, the gin distillery is great. And you can tour that. so it's out by the tunnels.

Paula Barnes (44:23.754)
Okay. That's all right. I'll find it and put in the show notes.

Paula Barnes (44:32.067)
Mm-hmm.

Paula Barnes (44:38.391)
Okay.

Stacy McCandless (44:38.575)
So if you want to kind of like add something on, because it is a bit like out of town. It takes a little time to get there. So would add on the distillery. I think you can eat there. I don't know. So you can kind of like help. So you don't lose your whole day just because you want to go and see what the tunnels, for example. But yeah, for me, like Ho Chi Minh is a perfect weekend place because it's just getaway. And I laugh with my friends here in Singapore because I'm like, for what we would spend.

Paula Barnes (44:42.348)
Yep.

Paula Barnes (44:48.864)
Okay. That's fine.

Paula Barnes (44:55.331)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (45:01.794)
Yeah, okay.

Paula Barnes (45:08.216)
Hmm.

Stacy McCandless (45:08.421)
on just going to dinner, like in Singapore, you can buy a flight, buy dinner and like, well, I mean, I don't know. It might be stretching it to say, stay in a hotel, for pretty much like going out, if you go out like Saturday and Sunday in Singapore, you've pretty much covered your weekend in Ho Chi Minh like easily. So it's just kind of an easy, it's like an hour and 20 minutes flight.

Paula Barnes (45:12.706)
Hmm

Paula Barnes (45:19.534)
But still.

Paula Barnes (45:27.278)
Yeah, I know.

Paula Barnes (45:33.582)
Mm.

Stacy McCandless (45:35.741)
Scoot flights are usually about $120. The Singapore Air ones are 300. So I've gone over for the weekend. I still do some events there. So sometimes I just do that and like to spend the weekend and it's not gonna break the bank and it is a little bit of a respite. So that part, I hope that answered your question.

Paula Barnes (45:38.392)
Well, it's cheap.

Paula Barnes (45:42.477)
Hmm.

Paula Barnes (46:01.358)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they did. So if you, know, people instead of, okay, let me start again. What would you suggest someone bring back as a souvenir? I'm not talking magnets, I'm talking where would you suggest, what would you suggest someone bring back?

Stacy McCandless (46:08.669)
you

Stacy McCandless (46:12.932)
Mm. Yep.

Stacy McCandless (46:20.451)
coffee and chocolate. So, yeah, that Marie chocolate. Hold on. I've got two things to show you.

Paula Barnes (46:22.272)
Okay, yep. And you've given us some good ideas. Yeah. Okay.

Stacy McCandless (46:40.413)
you my two favorites.

here.

Stacy McCandless (46:51.483)
Now, having said this, Singapore is insanely advantageous because they sell these things that I'm about to show you in Singapore. Yeah, but okay, so here's the chocolate. So you might, they do sell it. So this one's coconut milk, coconut milk. So back to my coconut coffees, I love them. So.

Paula Barnes (47:01.794)
Yeah. do they?

Paula Barnes (47:07.47)
okay, yep.

Stacy McCandless (47:18.267)
That's that one. But I mean, it's they have everything and they're they always have like the percentage. So I think they go up to like 98 percent cocoa or that it's strong chocolate. It's it's usually dark. It's not. It's not like sweet. Yeah, it's it's mostly like dark, strong chocolate. And this one is just an interesting one. I haven't tried it yet. Like we haven't haven't tried it.

Paula Barnes (47:24.596)
Okay. Yep. Yep.

Paula Barnes (47:32.684)
It's not dairy milk.

Paula Barnes (47:40.332)
Yeah, buckwheat. I saw that. It's roasted buckwheat. Yeah, that's interesting.

Stacy McCandless (47:46.129)
Well, they sponsored my last, I was there for like a gala ball. They sponsored it. So I got, they were like, everybody was giving it. So this is Trang Nguyen and this is like the gold star of Vietnamese coffee. This is the most expensive one. If you get this at the airport, it'll be in like a gold box. And it is like, it's so super overpriced for Vietnam, but it is really good.

Paula Barnes (47:51.608)
Okay. Okay.

Paula Barnes (48:00.578)
Okay, and what do, do you? Okay.

Paula Barnes (48:07.922)
Paula Barnes (48:15.15)
And it's coffee beans, right, for those who are just listening? No? okay, so it's been... Okay. Yep.

Stacy McCandless (48:17.053)
This has been ground, but you can buy it either way. The Cheong Nguyen actually in... What's the state? They have a Cheong Nguyen coffee shop. Actually, our friend Jane lives right above one of them. I think there's only one in Singapore, but they have like a full coffee shop and like you can get sandwiches and everything there. I wrote it.

Paula Barnes (48:35.135)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (48:43.478)
And that's in... where? Where was that?

Stacy McCandless (48:45.597)
I've just forgotten the station name. Our friend Jane lives like right in that station. no, no, in Singapore. No, no, that's what I mean. Like our friend Jane, who we are probably gonna see later, is living above this one in Singapore. However, this is everywhere in Vietnam. It's like...

Paula Barnes (48:49.674)
Okay. Is it Wuchermin City or we're further up north? it's Singapore. Okay, okay. Our friend Jane. okay. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah.

okay.

Stacy McCandless (49:10.737)
They're fancy, they're fancy version, but they're all good. Like you don't have to like to spend a lot on their really good coffee. I have this one because when my husband goes back, cause my husband opens hotels there, there's one like very nice owner who always gives us a bag. But they do have it here in Singapore. And, but like the coffee is something that's easy to bring back. And because it's such their...

Paula Barnes (49:13.13)
Okay. Yeah.

Paula Barnes (49:26.958)
That's nice.

Stacy McCandless (49:37.661)
know, pride, they package it in like really nice little, you know, if you're a souvenir type samples. Also, pepper. So the island of Phu Quoc, which is also super easy to access from Singapore, because they actually have direct flights there now and you don't have to have a visa. Since you have to have a visa when you go into Vietnam, like the country, but because it's an island and you're not

Paula Barnes (49:43.17)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (49:47.352)
Pepper.

Paula Barnes (49:51.54)
Okay, yeah.

Yeah. Do they?

Stacy McCandless (50:06.235)
Like I guess you're like, you don't have to visa. So you can, and you can fly direct. I think it's only scoot that does it, but yeah. So you can go into Fukuq, but Fukuq like 10 years ago is all pepper. That's all it was, pepper trees. And they've developed it so much now, but pepper, and they have like four different types of pepper. don't really understand.

Paula Barnes (50:08.864)
okay, that's interesting. Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Stacy McCandless (50:32.349)
at all. It's like, but green pepper, white pepper, black pepper, but they sell it like as souvenirs as well because it's, and that's really special because they've got these varieties that don't grow everywhere. Salt, I think is the same. I see salt being sold, but I think the pepper is actually like unique in like the variety. It's not grown everywhere. Pearls.

Paula Barnes (50:32.955)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (50:38.893)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (50:45.11)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (50:52.674)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paula Barnes (50:59.479)
Okay, yeah.

Stacy McCandless (51:01.213)
Pearls are still farmed the old fashioned way. So they're not like produced, but they, I mean, it's like the ladies that do the diving still. You can go in Da Nang. Yeah, I was just going to say. in, actually, Fukuq has a great one, though I don't know if you can do a tour there. I had to look into that. In Fukuq,

Paula Barnes (51:06.254)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (51:16.376)
Can you guys see that? Yeah? Okay.

Stacy McCandless (51:31.505)
there are kind of two ends of the island, but one of the ends has sun group and they, it's like, you look up star beach in Fukuke, it'll kind of put you on the right end of the island. But there's a cable car that is fantastic in itself because you just go over all these little islands. The cable car takes you to this final island, which is a big amusement park kind of.

Paula Barnes (51:41.998)
Mm-hmm.

Stacy McCandless (52:00.719)
spectacular water parks and so that may not be your thing. However, the trip over should be your thing because it's so amazing because you're on this cable car, you're going over the ocean and you're looking down. And one of the things that you see when you look down is all the all the pearl farming. So I'm pretty sure you go over all the fishing villages, but the I'd say like there must be little boat excursions.

Paula Barnes (52:17.038)
okay.

Stacy McCandless (52:30.235)
They definitely do that in Nha Trang and Da Nang where you can go out. I haven't done it myself, but some of my family did where they went out and they took a boat and they got to choose their pearl. I don't think they were diving, but they went out and saw that happening. then they got like, so they got their little pearl. And then they, think the end of the tour was they got it made into something.

Paula Barnes (52:46.912)
Okay. Got to choose.

Paula Barnes (52:57.132)
Okay, that's very cool.

Stacy McCandless (52:59.055)
It's definitely everywhere in Vietnam you can get jewelry made at a really good price. Gold's hard right now, but if you're getting any other thing than gold, then yeah, it's a pretty good place to get things made. I've had that like, you know, like a stone, we'll have a stone from somewhere and just go and get it set. But pearls are good.

Paula Barnes (53:03.587)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (53:14.104)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (53:28.505)
souvenirs, especially I think right now because it's kind of popular to have the rugged ones, rugged pearls instead of like perfect round ones, like the rugged ones. So those are easy to find there. They sell them in the airport everywhere.

Paula Barnes (53:36.018)
yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paula Barnes (53:46.796)
Yeah, I've seen them when I've done a couple of tours in Vietnam. They always take you somewhere where you can potentially buy pearls. It seems to be. It doesn't matter where I am.

Stacy McCandless (53:56.489)
there's a lot of those and I'd be careful about it. So there's like all these rest shops. Well, cause they like you're in the car a lot, especially around these big tours. And I don't like doing that. I don't like trying to cover a ton of ground when you're in Vietnam. I think it's better just to pick a spot and see what's around it. But having said that, if you do that, you may not get to see some of the cooler places. So going off and seeing the countryside, seeing how, you know, they're working the land and farming the

Paula Barnes (53:59.702)
Yeah, I haven't bought anything. Yes.

Stacy McCandless (54:26.161)
The rice is very cool. It just means like four or five hours in the car sometimes. So what they do is they break it up by these rest stops. And these rest stops are huge and they are just selling you stuff. But it is not like in other countries like Thailand, for example, where they're just selling you all the same stuff that they sell you in every other country and it's all shipped in from China. This is different. I mean, I think those exist, but...

Paula Barnes (54:31.5)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (54:47.18)
Yes.

Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (54:56.251)
these little rest stops will actually have authentically like Vietnamese goods at like some marked up price and kind of like trying to gear it towards tourists. But there is one that is worth seeing and that is on the way to Ninh Binh. God, it? I think I'd have to ask. It's either on the way to Ninh Binh or the way to Ha Long Bay. I think it's on the way to Ninh Binh. Ninh Binh's amazing. I would definitely.

Paula Barnes (55:00.802)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (55:13.55)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (55:21.591)
Okay.

Stacy McCandless (55:25.487)
say go to Ninh Binh if you're going to Hanoi. It's south of Hanoi and Ha Long Bay is north. So if you're gonna do both, you had to keep coming back to Hanoi. But Ninh Binh is the limestone caves. There's actually quite a lot to do, a lot of hiking. You can spend like three days there. But I think from the Hanoi on the drive to Ninh Binh, there's this rust drop that's run, it's showcasing only the works of disabled Vietnamese that

Paula Barnes (55:38.36)
Hmm.

Stacy McCandless (55:54.053)
So they have factories that they make handicrafts, but it's only people working there are deaf or blind. And what they make there is these embroidery paintings, or not paintings, but like, I have one upstairs. It's all just like a beautiful framed.

Paula Barnes (55:57.677)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (56:08.727)
Yep.

Paula Barnes (56:12.216)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (56:17.593)
portrait of like the ones that are really amazing are like of people's faces and stuff, but it's all all done embroidery Silk embroidery it that's beautiful. I mean, I don't know how big your suitcase is but That is worth seeing and that is one of those rest stops lacquer going They have them in Hanoi and in Ho Chi Minh. We're well, they're not in those two cities But they're about an hour out of both of those two cities. They have lacquer

Paula Barnes (56:24.471)
Nice.

Paula Barnes (56:29.664)
Hahaha!

Stacy McCandless (56:47.485)
and ceramic factories. And you can go and see them being made. Like all my dishes are from there. for the, here I'll show you. This was my, I have it right here, one thing, in reach. Like, see they're like little fish. And like, I liked it because everywhere I went, they had like dishes with them. And so I got like a whole set of dishes.

Paula Barnes (56:49.823)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (56:57.368)
Bye.

Paula Barnes (57:13.027)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (57:16.637)
because I liked these little fish swimming around, but I got to make it.

Paula Barnes (57:19.15)
Yeah. Sorry, before you say anything further, just to describe it. So there's all little fishes and is it a vase that you have or is it a jar that you have?

Stacy McCandless (57:29.808)
no, this actually this is I'm really into tea. So this is holding some of my

Paula Barnes (57:33.478)
okay, so she's got all her tea in there, but it's a beautiful vase, ceramic, sorry, vase, jar, that's got a lid on it, that's got little fishes, are they fishes that I see?

Stacy McCandless (57:41.423)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'll show you the plate because the plate probably shows it.

Stacy McCandless (57:50.557)
I was just eating off of it earlier. So this is in all the restaurants, which is why all the restaurants have this pattern. And I just always liked it. So I was like, want to get this before I leave Vietnam. And I got to go there. And so this is in Bac Chang, which is written on the back. Bac Chang is the big ceramics. It's out of Hanoi.

Paula Barnes (57:53.83)
wow, that's beautiful. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

Paula Barnes (58:10.71)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (58:17.228)
Yep.

Stacy McCandless (58:19.197)
So in Bacchang, I got to sit down with the artisans and make one myself and try painting. then you get to see the kiln and everything. So that's actually beautiful. And you can do that with the lacquer as well. The lacquer is still made the traditional way. mean, like kind of all of Asia sort of does it that way. I think Japan and China as well. But in Vietnam,

Paula Barnes (58:24.6)
What now?

Paula Barnes (58:30.925)
Yep.

Okay.

Yeah.

Paula Barnes (58:42.211)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (58:49.201)
They kind of have a different art, sorry, the technique for making, they tend to be a bit more ornate. It's more like birds and flowers and things put into the lacquer. The villagers, that's all they do. And it's like five generations of lacquer makers and they've just, it's all done in the lacquer villages and they still do that. So pretty much everybody who works there has been,

Paula Barnes (58:56.12)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (59:07.758)
Bye bye.

Stacy McCandless (59:18.513)
like their family has been doing nothing but lacquer. And ceramics kind of the same thing. So you get to see them, you know, they're all sitting on the ground working together in little pods of people and, and you can, they're, not shy about you watching and taking part. So that's pretty cool. Usually the school, the international schools usually take the kids to go look at it and watch it and see the artisans. So that's actually a really great souvenir.

Paula Barnes (59:21.582)
yeah.

Paula Barnes (59:30.284)
How nice.

Paula Barnes (59:34.286)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (59:43.529)
Okay, yep.

Stacy McCandless (59:48.815)
as well. Yeah, I would say all the handicraft stuff.

Paula Barnes (59:53.868)
definitely. And so before we go are there any tips that you could give or you feel like there's anything you'd like to add about visiting Vietnam?

Stacy McCandless (01:00:03.677)
Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry, I just think vague. I'd say there's a whole lot right now being kind of pitched as like preparing apps for money payment and stuff like that. I don't really think it's necessary. If there it is starting to transition to sort of paying with your phone kind of payment when you go places. But I don't think you need to get like a special app. They don't use

Paula Barnes (01:00:11.395)
That's right.

Paula Barnes (01:00:29.902)
okay got you, yep.

Stacy McCandless (01:00:36.411)
WhatsApp or like very much they use Zalo, which is this other one, which is some kind of time, sometimes a bit tricky, but you can use Grab. And so Grab app helps definitely with booking cars, but sometimes you can pay on it in Vietnam as well. I think just the best thing with Vietnam so that you're not getting overcharged is to just have cash with you. Get to know the cash, how it works. I always just say,

Paula Barnes (01:00:45.486)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (01:00:52.929)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (01:01:00.182)
Okay, that's a good call. Yep. Yep.

Stacy McCandless (01:01:06.255)
minus four zeros and half it for the money. There are a lot of zeros in Vietnam dong. Yeah, so if you half it, so that takes you to a US dollar amount usually. like 200,000.

Paula Barnes (01:01:08.865)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (01:01:12.36)
Hehehehehe

Stacy McCandless (01:01:29.277)
Yeah, so it'd be about $10. So if you take off the zeros, about $10, I think that's about right. But they have apps for payment and like, guess like Wwise and those, but those aren't really used all that much. And they use a Vietnam version, which I just don't know if I trust it yet, because it's just still new. I would say like stick to grab and cash for the time being. And if you can avoid using your credit card.

Paula Barnes (01:01:32.078)
Okay, I understand.

Paula Barnes (01:01:40.782)
Okay. Yeah.

Paula Barnes (01:01:48.856)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (01:01:53.153)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (01:01:58.871)
Okay.

Stacy McCandless (01:01:59.235)
except for hotels and like, but when you're just like, even just like cafes, it's just like, sometimes it's annoying. sometimes it's your bank. They're just trying to like keep you from fraud, but fraud does exist. So if you can try and just use cash as much as you can.

Paula Barnes (01:02:02.018)
Motel's in city air.

Paula Barnes (01:02:08.204)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (01:02:16.301)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (01:02:21.58)
Yeah, definitely. That's a good tip because I always take cash anywhere wherever I go because you never know when your card might not work anyway, right? So for some reason. But that's been so great. Like you've had so much information about Vietnam that it's quite exciting. My next trip is going to be somewhere completely different. I think I want to go up north next time. Then you've totally convinced me that that's the place that I need to go. So thank you.

Stacy McCandless (01:02:22.843)
Yeah.

Yep.

Stacy McCandless (01:02:29.586)
Mm.

Stacy McCandless (01:02:37.796)
you

Thanks.

Stacy McCandless (01:02:49.885)
Well, I'd love to go with you.

Paula Barnes (01:02:51.862)
Yes, definitely. need you to take me to these amazing places. So yeah, we'll definitely keep it. Okay.

Stacy McCandless (01:02:57.693)
I definitely say pack light. Don't bring a lot. don't need a lot. You will want to bring stuff back with you. If you go to the North, because there's the difference in the temperature, you may not know what the temperature is going to be like. It could fluctuate. So instead of packing your suitcase with like maybes, North Face is made there. you can, I mean, some of it's knockoff, some of it's real. It's like...

Paula Barnes (01:03:04.781)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (01:03:09.581)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (01:03:21.314)
Yeah. okay.

Stacy McCandless (01:03:26.045)
$10 buy yourself a jacket. Like I I have like three rain jackets that I just bought there They work great. Like they're probably knockoffs whatever but it's then I didn't have to plan I didn't have to carry extra like heavy jackets It's just just get one there like just just get it there and then you don't have to like worry about Having enough space and it is really annoying if you're gonna go to multiple cities to have luggage

Paula Barnes (01:03:28.365)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (01:03:32.205)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (01:03:36.748)
Yep. Yep.

Paula Barnes (01:03:44.748)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (01:03:55.899)
because it is not a perfect system in Vietnam when it comes to airports, like domestic airports, mean. Do yourself a favor, just do a carry-on if you can. So you're not worried about luggage, delays, there's often delays. And if there's a tight connection, there's almost always delays in Vietnam with domestic flights, almost always. Another reason why I try to like stick to one place when I go. But yeah, just travel light.

Paula Barnes (01:03:58.859)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (01:04:02.413)
Yeah.

Paula Barnes (01:04:08.035)
yep.

Stacy McCandless (01:04:26.153)
try and experience like something authentic and not necessarily like a packaged, for tourists. Like, like try to. Yes. And if you do go to Sapa, it's worth getting a driver because you had to, the train will drop you at the base and then you have to take a bus, which always break down to get to the top. So get a driver. It's so cheap.

Paula Barnes (01:04:32.502)
Okay.

Yeah, with 50 people on a bus.

Paula Barnes (01:04:42.69)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (01:04:49.696)
Okay, okay, okay.

Paula Barnes (01:04:55.661)
Yeah.

Stacy McCandless (01:04:55.709)
to get them and they actually, the drivers end up sleeping up there and they're with you all the time. So then you can get around and see smaller places. It sounds extravagant, but it's not. And it actually is about the same price as doing it. It's one of like the big, yeah, exactly, exactly.

Paula Barnes (01:05:02.141)
Okay.

Paula Barnes (01:05:14.232)
with a group tour anyway. Yeah. Excellent. Thank you.

Stacy McCandless (01:05:18.449)
Well, I hope that helps. Feel free to reach out to me with any Vietnam questions. I do put tours together for Vietnam and always happy to help give some recommendations.

Paula Barnes (01:05:29.482)
Excellent and I'll put all your details in the show notes. So thank you so much and we will catch up soon. Bye. Okay, so stop, stop. I'm going to stop it but we...

Stacy McCandless (01:05:33.981)
You're very welcome. Happy travels. Bye.