SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Truly Expat Travel Podcast, where I chat with expats about their favorite holiday destinations. Let's be honest. Expats are some of the best travelers around. Sure. Always planning the next adventure, exploring hidden gems, and finding the best spots wherever they go. So who better to ask for travel inspiration? So thank you, Cassie, for coming on. Just a little bit of a background. I've known Cassie for a long time now, actually, because we lived in Kuala Lumpur together, and that was 10 years ago. Yeah, it was 10 years ago. Oh wow. It does, it does. So I'm so excited. Yeah. So today feels like just a catch-up. So I'm really excited to have you on. And I thought, let's get started by chatting about who are you, what type of a traveler are you, how did you become an expat? That kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Okay, okay. So I was an expat for like 20 years in 1999. We moved to Seoul, or not Seoul. Busan in South Korea. Yeah. Uh for my husband's work. It was like completely out of the box, unexpected, knew nothing about the country other than maybe MASH. Was that filmed in Busan? No, it wasn't. It was set in Korea. So that was the only reference. I know we knew about the Korean War, but yeah, it was completely eye-opening and a wonderful experience. Then we moved to Malaysia. We were there for four years. And then we went to Singapore for four years, and then we were back in Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur, in 2008, where we stayed, well, I stayed until the end of 2019. What happened was I was here for Christmas, my mum got diagnosed with cancer, so I decided to stay to support her through her surgery and treatment. And then of course the world was turned upside down in 2020, and I more or less have been here since.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

So here is Australia. Here is Australia for those who haven't recognized your accent yet.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

It's a beautiful part of the world, and we're just so fortunate to live where we do. Yeah. This week I've been seeing whales and dolphins and turtles. And the weather is nice for winter. Yeah, winter here is the best. You know, originally we were from Melbourne. Yeah. And we thought, oh, will we ever be able to live back in Melbourne and survive winter after living in the tropics for nearly 20 years? It's like, nope. So we had we had family here, friends here, and we would visit and we're like, you know, like let's sell the house in Melbourne and buy on the sunny coast. And here we are.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Sounds like a lovely plan. So what kind of traveler do you think you are?

SPEAKER_00 3:13

I would say mixed because I've done different things. You know, I've done like I've stayed in Borneo volunteering with the orangutans where we stayed in like very basic accommodation where we could do our own cleaning and cooking, and you know, the there weren't even screens on the windows, sleeping under mosquito nets and hearing the jungle noises in the middle of the night to you know staying in European cities where it's staying better accommodation.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

As I've gotten older, I do like to have more comfort. I think we all do. I'm having somewhere quiet to stay is important.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Yeah. Gone are the days of sleeping on in uh swags in the middle of the um well, it's not called a swag. What does it call it? Like a sleeping bag, I guess. Um gone are those days for me. Yeah, like a little bit more comfort comfort. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

You ate too much, aren't I? Yeah, yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

I get up too sore, to be honest. My back, my leg. Yeah. So we're gonna talk about Spain today, right? Yeah, so in in particular in Granada. So tell me what captured your heart? Like, how did it capture your heart?

SPEAKER_00 4:34

So, well, we went to Spain for two weeks to celebrate my 50th birthday, so it was a little while ago. But you know, we put Granada on the the itinerary, you know, extensively to see the alhambra. You know, because everyone's like, You've got to see the alhambra. I'm like, oh, okay, let's go to the alhambra. You sound like me. We went to the you know, we went to Granada, but it was, I think for me, it was because I had no expectation of what was we were going to see and do, yeah, it was such a lovely surprise. And it turned out it was like, you know what, I could live here for three months and be based here and travel around from here because we were there in the off season, so there weren't as many tourists. And because it's a university city, there's lots of young people and it's vibrant and there's things happening, and yeah, it's like people live there, it's not just touristy. That's nice. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's like a and there's not that animosity that I felt like say in Barcelona, uh-huh, where they just hate tourists. You can feel the vibe of everyone. So, but yeah, Granada's got a different, more lived-in vibe about it.

unknown 5:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Is it is it hard to get to? It's not hard to get to, it just takes time to get there. We were hoping all our other travel within Spain, we did f via the fast train, but it was still a long way from Barcelona, Seville, Madrid. So we flew. And it was like an hour and a bit from Barcelona to fly. But it was easy.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

So my geography's terrible. Is it how far away is it from Barcelona?

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Uh, so it's quite a distance south. Okay. Yeah. So it's sort of like sort of between Madrid, Barcelona, it's like a triangle. Okay. Yeah. And how long did the flight take?

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Just over an hour. Okay, not too bad. For some reason I was thinking it was like really far.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah, I know, it's oh just over an hour. So it's like flying, say, from Melbourne to Sydney or Kuala Lumpa to Singapore kind of situation.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

I d I do think living in a like coming from Australia, anything's quite when you say, Oh, it's so people say it's so far away. It took a plane, it took an hour. I'm like, no, that's not far. Yeah, that's just down the road. So when you um so this kind of trip, did you was it it wasn't a spontaneous trip then, it was a thought-out itinerary.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Yeah, well, it was it's probably one of the most planned out trips we've ever done because we're we usually do it, we're very flyby appants kind of travelers. Yeah. And we'll say, Oh, we've got this space available, let's go here. But this time we thought, no, let's plan it because we needed to book ahead with a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

So yeah. What month, what month did you go? We went in October. Oh, I love that season. Yeah, so it wasn't it was cool in the evenings and early mornings, but beautiful sunny days. I think we maybe had a few days of rain in Madrid, but it wasn't cold.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

That's I'm I'm really moving towards the shoulder seasons now, you know, less tourist, nice weather, you know. Like I don't mind a little bit of a cardigan of an evening and a nice sunny day. And even if it rains a few days, it's not so bad, you know? No, no, no. I'm with you on that. What does a a couple of days itinerary look for like for you? Like what would you put in a two-day itinerary?

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Okay, so we had two full days there. The first day we just did a walk around because we we're walkers, we like to walk and especially walk through back streets and you can see things that you don't see in the main touristy thoroughfares. Yeah. And we wandered up through the try and say it correctly, a bathing. A bathing. Yeah, which is like high up in a hilly area, cobblestones, beautiful, beautiful, whitewashed. It sort of had a Santorini kind of feel about it. Oh wow. But people live there, so it was amazing. Like we had we could hear piano and violin being played. Oh, let's just follow that note. And we just it's probably a bit creepy, really. Yeah, we stood out the front of this house and listened while the piano and violin were being played. It was beautiful, you know, with the Bougainville and the whitewashed walls and the sun was shining. It was just it was glorious.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

So I feel like you I feel like you're writing an in a novel at the moment that describing it. It sounds beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Yeah, and then you know, we wound our way up the hill and to the where everyone gathers to look out. There's a particular plaza there, the views, and there were some musicians playing and nice, you know. So it was a mix of locals and tourists just enjoying the scenery. So yeah, it was amazing. And then what would you do? Then we sort of wandered back down another way and we found I can't even remember where it was. We in the same area, we found this um Middle Eastern restaurant. Oh wow, and it was amazing, like the bread and the hummus and the the meat. So we did our vegan and vegetarian business. Yeah, and the mint tea. It's amazing. It was just like you were in the Middle East, but you know that Granada has that history of the Moors living there, and so that was amazing. And then we had that, wandered our way back to our accommodation and had a bit of a rest, and then we went out for tapas, as you do. Yeah, as you do. Had a couple of drinks, and we once again we wandered around and we went to the cathedral area. We sat in the steps of the plaza and just watched the families, kids playing, and you know, a couple of restaurants with people eating, and it just had this really nice vibe of I don't know, it was relaxed, it wasn't hectic. Yeah, and it was good to see fam local families there as well doing their what they do.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

I think Europe is a great place to people watch. You can't really people watch in other places, yeah. It just seems to be a thing you can do, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Absolutely, yeah. So that was great. Yep. And then we we had an early morning because the next day we we went to Alhambra, so and had booked the first session of the day.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Can you explain what that is for people?

SPEAKER_00 11:45

So the Alhambra was like where the Moors ruled from in Spain. So it's historical, beautiful buildings and architecture with the environs and the gardens, and it's just one of the it's like going to a palace in um in England or a chateau in France. It's yeah, just this beautiful feeling, but the history of where Spain's traveled from, really. Yeah. And did you do a tour in there? No, we did a self-guided tour. We're not really tour people. Yeah. And we chose the first session because we wanted to miss the tourists, busloads of tourists. So clever. So yeah, it's always nice. Yeah, it was beautiful, and you you know, just those iconic images that you see online and in the the books and on people's social feeds when they visit. It's all that and more.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

And how long did you do you estimate you should stay in there?

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Um I think we were there in there for a good five hours. Oh wow. Because there was a lot to see. Okay, I wasn't expecting that. No, no, you know, there was a lot to see and because it's quite a big complex.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

You know, and then we sat in the gardens for a while and of course we sat and found somewhere to have a coffee and something to eat. And yeah, it was amazing. And then you got the views greater Granada from there as well. So how beautiful. Yeah, yeah. Did you have lunch there? No, we didn't because we had had a substantial breakfast before. But we had lunch outside. Okay. So but there were plenty of places to have lunch, but I don't know if they would be as good as outside.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it know it tends to be a bit touristy and a little surprised in classes, aren't they?

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Yeah, and it's a I probably the quality is not as good.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

And so what did your afternoon look like? The afternoon we wandered back down where we stayed was on the road on the way to the Alhambra. We actually had a view of it from our little balcony window, so that was lovely. Life. Just down the road from us was a one of the flamenco theatres. Oh so we wandered down and we booked tickets for that evening's performance. Yeah, and um, you know, then we found somewhere to have lunch. It was somewhere on the river, you know, just we did people watching and then back to accommodation and had a rest and got ready for the evening. So tell me about the flamenco dancing, because that's been in my that was that was everything. Yeah, it was in a big theatre. Oh no, it was a very small theatre, maybe 50 people. Oh wow. It was I you know I had seen flamenco before outside of Spain, and you know, it was always it's always wowed me. Yeah. This performance was like I was just gobsmacked. I love that. Just like the whole time, I was just I had to keep my mouth shut because it was just so incredible. The like the music and the the vocals, and there was one particular dancer, and I'm like, when you know, he was like a a panther. Oh you know, when he was getting because he had the the female dancer, she was incredible, but you could see him and he's like sort of the way he was moving and in the background is like, oh my goodness, you know, he I was getting this like really, I don't know, it was like it was attractive, but it was a bit creepy. It was like, oh my god, this guy. And then when it was his turn to dance, it was just oh, it took my breath away. He was it was spellbinding, and yeah, I just at the end, I should have, but I I wanted to jump up and just go, oh, that's the most incredible experience. And that for me, that would for our entire Spain trip, that was the highlight. We went to other flamenco performances. Oh, you did, okay, and they were wonderful, but this one was just incredible. That's good to know.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

So I should save up and wait.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Yeah, just yeah, yeah, and I'll I'll um send you some links to that would be great to his particular part so you can follow him and see where he where and when he is performing. Oh, perfect.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

I'm sure a lot of the people listening who uh think you've gone to Granada will definitely want to go see that performance. Is there a food or a drink that you have to try in Granada?

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Uh mint tea was really good. Yeah. Um it was like, you know, it was on par with what I've had in the Middle East. Oh wow, but um carvo, it's hard to go past carver in Spain. Nice glass of carver at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Yeah. You're not the first who's uh recommended that when we've spoken about Spain.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

You know, in every establishment you go to, they're like they're they have something that they want you to try.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Yeah. Is there something kind of famous from that area, like a food not famous, but a food that just is from that area? A type of tappa or something?

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Not really. Not really, no, but I think Granada is famous, like they're more generous with their tapas. They're nice. Yeah. Yes, in some places.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

I found, you know, and it's funny, when I was traveling through Spain the last time I travelled through Spain, I found that I didn't there were some areas I didn't love the tapas as much as other areas. I thought every place was the same, but it's not. No. There's a few that are really it's fried stuff, and it's yeah. As I get older, fried stuff and I Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

You know, like in Barcelona, it's more seafoody stuff, but I'm not I'm not a fishy person.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Yeah. Was there a standout experience or moment that made the trip unforgettable? I'm guessing you're talking about the flamenco definitely.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Yeah, flamenco, definitely. But also that experience of you know, listening to the music in the street coming from someone's house, you know, sitting in the plaza watching the families and children running around playing together. Yeah, it was just like a magic said it was it was magical and I really felt that I could live here for a little while.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Yeah. It's it's funny when I often ask people about their destination, quite often they'll say, you know, it's a place I feel like I could live. Yeah. Yeah, or I could at least live for a while or stay a bit longer.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

It's more of a feeling than anything else, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:50

So I went to Spain thinking I was all it all it gonna be all about Barcelona.

unknown 18:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Because I had found out not long before that we had supposedly had Spanish heritage from the Barcelona area. Oh, and when I did go to Barcelona, I was like, oh my god, look, everyone looks the same as me. The like the hair and the skin colour and even the body build and everything. And my husband said to me, he said, Oh, don't you go wandering off because I'm gonna lose you in the um but it's very it's very true about Australians, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Because our heritage is everywhere. And I think as much as I'm an Aussie, as soon as I step into Italy, I'm the same, right? Everyone looks like me. They don't sound like me, but they look like me.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Then ironically, just recently, that that same family member who had done the family history, she's like, you know what? I don't think we do have that Spanish connection because she had she and some other family members had done their DNA testing. Okay. And there was no none of them had any Spanish connection to them.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

So Ah, but you know what you could have though? Yeah. Somewhere, some yeah. Because I know that when my husband got his done, we found all sorts of things. We were very surprised. But you never know.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Yeah. You never know. I haven't had it done, so um I'd like to get it done.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

So I met this lady. Oh sorry, I'm going off track here, but I I met this lady just recently in Canada, and she does she writes history for family history. Like uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Uh, family trees. And so I got my husband for his 40th someone to write a story about his ancestors, and she said to me, Oh, I can do that. She said, Firstly, being Catholic, amazing because they're the easiest to track and from church to church. And secondly, you need to have a DNA testing before I'll do it because that also tells me a lot. So, did you have any cultural experiences or interactions with the locals that made the trip a little bit more special?

SPEAKER_00 21:10

We found like, as I said, we've just found that the the locals were more welcoming there and they're they like to have a chat like the people in the shops and the cafes and the restaurants. They're just were seemed more interested in us and what we were doing. And yeah, so that was I think that added to the feeling of, yeah, I could live here kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

I do think when the locals are friendly, it does give a little bit more of a for example, when I was in Portugal th th I'm gonna say, yeah, 30 years ago, hated it. Like, can I tell you? I absolutely hated the experience I had was so horrible, I thought I will never go back again. I went back again two years ago and I was like, why did I wait so long? This is such an amazing country and this city and Porto in particular, I hated. I love I loved it. So the the locals make a big difference in your experience.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

They do. And yeah, again, being a university city, you've got all the young people there. So you know, there's music and yeah, just sitting around on steps and in cafes and I actually didn't know that it was a university city.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yeah, it is. Does it have a big international?

SPEAKER_00 22:30

There seem to be you know Asians there who are not tourists.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Yeah. So it must have a big international. I must admit I did look at the courses.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Oh, did you?

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Being a woman of a certain age, I didn't think my brain would be quite doing it.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

I'd love to do that though. I'd love to go and learn a language in their country at a university. I've always said that I'd do that in Italy, but my brain, I've just I'm not equipped for languages. I know that about myself. Yeah. Is there one thing that you wish you had known before going, or was there a challenge or a something that you discovered along the way?

SPEAKER_00 23:10

I think the challenge was that I was carrying an injury at the time. So the walking was a bit challenging, walking up the hills and on cobblestones. So definitely the right shoes. And you know, if you make sure you rest, don't push yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

I think cobblestones are are beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

They are. But they're not friendly.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

They're not friendly. They're not friendly. Doing the Camino with those walking sticks that kept going in the middle of the the cobblestones. They're not friendly at all.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

No. Yeah, so yeah, the footwear makes all the difference. Definitely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Is it a walkable city?

SPEAKER_00 23:55

It is definitely walkable, especially around a bathing. Yeah. You have to walk up there. Um cars do go up, but it's very, very narrow.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Yeah, don't like I don't like driving up narrow streets. No, it's it's I remember I remember your adventure. Look at how the cheer they go down. No, Google Maps lie, they do, they lie. And so you go down tiny streets with with stairs and all sorts of things. Could you give one tip to anyone who's thinking of going to Granada?

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Well, absolutely book well in advance the Alhambra because when when we went, we you know, you have to go and pick up your tickets at the booking office before you do your entry. People were queuing up asking if there are any tickets, and the people on the desk were saying, sorry, we're booked out for the next three months. Oh wow. Yeah. So definitely if you're going to go, you might have to organise your trip around availability there is to get in.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

That's a good tip. Yeah, because I think sometimes when they when people are just going off the fly and arriving in a town that they don't really know much about and they really want to go to see a major yeah, well, you know, people go to Granada for the Alhambra, really.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

That's why they go there. But yeah, definitely book well in advance.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

That's good to know.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Yeah. And my other tip is try and book the first session of the morning to beat the busloads of tourists. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

It always scares me when you pull up somewhere and there's like a shipload of cruise ships pulled in or a big bus pulled in.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

You go no. Yeah. Well, we had that experience in France with um going to Versailles. So we had our pre-booked tickets and we were in that queue for an hour and a half because everyone else had pre-booked tickets.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Yeah, same thing. And I was even on a tour. So we were there was like, I don't know, 30 of us standing there waiting for ages. But you're right. That's that's it's picking those times is very important, especially in Europe in peak season. God help me, I wouldn't want to go in peak season. But thank you, Cassie. It's been lovely chatting with you. Is there anything anything else you think you'd like to add about Gradada before we go?

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Just just go. Yeah, yeah, just go any time of year. Maybe not this time of year, because it I know it can get very hot.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

And it's up in the mountains. But yeah, I was just looking at the weather there today, and it was like 34 by four. That's not good for walking around.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yeah, it's hot and sweet. Yeah, yeah. It's it's hot in Europe at this time of year, especially August as well. But yeah, I'm I'm a big believer.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

October sounds like a great was a wonderful time to go. It was sunny and cool, but not cold. Excellent. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Thanks so much for coming on, and I'm so glad we got to chat and catch up because we are. I mean, I speak to you online, but it's not the same. So it's lovely to chat to you. Cassie said thank you. My pleasure. Thank you for having me. So join us again next week on Truly Expat Travel Podcast, where I have another exciting destination in a world that's too big to be left unexplored. Shafana